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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 940 ✭✭✭mike_cork




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Sigma101


    I think he might have preferred the Hague.

    I reckon he'll have made some preparations. There's a significant number of hardcore extremists who will be very unhappy about this. Let's see how his supporters react.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    He doesn't seem to be, nor is it clear how you think he is.


    Ukraine would be doing well if it is not losing 500 to a 1000 a day dead in the counter offensive, that's the nature of war when attacking a defended position.


    They'll view the price as worth paying and the cost of freedom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,473 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Well he’s claiming Russia lost 80,000 in Bakhmut and then quotes the US who said the ratio is 1:1 so he’s clearly hinting Ukraine lost the same.


    If Ukraine we’re losing 500-1000 soldiers a day dead the counter and war would be over now.


    Dare I ask you for any evidence to back up those numbers?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Sigma101


    I agree with you that economic data published by Russia is not reliable and is intended to misinform.

    However, it would be wrong to assess the state of the Russian economy based on the decline in oil and gas revenue this year compared to 2022 (which was an exceptional year). Most credible economic forecasts indicate, at most, a very modest drop in Russian economic output this year. The World Bank estimates a decline in GDP of just 0.2% in 2023. In a worst case scenario, the OECD projects a GDP decline of 2.5%. The IMF is forecasting that the Russian economy will actually grow by 0.7% this year. These assessments are not based on official Russian numbers but on these institutions' own economic models, driven by data from multiple more credible sources.

    Looking only at economic aspects, Russia can probably sustain the war and withstand the impact of sanctions for at least a few years. Whether it can survive that long militarily or politically is another matter.

    russiagdp.jpg




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Sigma101


    No.

    The World Bank projection is based on its own modelling and assessments of the global economy and is independent of any growth projections that Russia might provide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Where did I say Ukraine attacked ships I believe you might referring to civilian shipping they haven't,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭Sigma101


    There's no discussing with you. You'll argue that black is white and refute any evidence to the contrary.

    Have a look at this academic paper from the World Bank. It will give you some insights into the detailed analysis that underpins their economic forecasts. They do not simply regurgitate forecast figures provided by tinpot dictatorships.

    https://documents1.worldbank.org/curated/en/099426303102336406/pdf/IDU0f9f2613e0a18e0486c0a2710e80b2c21a128.pdf

    The OECD forecast modelling is even more comprehensive. I'm at work so I'll let you research that one yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I previously posted the the reports now you have an issue .......

    Tell me how many Russian have died in bakmut or in Ukraine to date , and then tell me how many Ukrainians soldiers have died at the same time.....

    A - how many Russian soldiers have died in Ukraine since the start of the war ?

    You don't know ?

    B - how many Ukrainian soldiers have died in Ukraine since the start of the war

    You don't know ?

    Yes



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,306 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Right there pal. I'll copy out the line too in case the quote isn't working

    they have already shown earlier on in the war they will attack civilian ships



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The Ukrainian number is claimed but also at the same time Ukrainian are claiming that the numbers of Russians Kia is true.

    You cant say figure one is true and they say in the same sentence one is false when the figures are coming from the one source for both figures



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭macraignil


    A quotation from the article you provided a link to makes me question why you make the statement: "The only credible claims of casualties that I have seen came from the original leaked US intel docs in April."

    From the article you provide a link to and take figures from:

    "Reuters has not been able to independently verify the documents and some countries, including Russia and Ukraine, have questioned their veracity, while U.S. officials say some of the files appear to have been altered."

    When documents are stolen and reported as being altered before being published online would that not make the figures you are quoting at least some way distant from being the only credible casualty figures available and having a distinct possibility of having been manipulated to suit the agenda of whoever stole them and altered them before publishing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I was referring to the Russians,who have attacked several civilian ships in and close to Ukraine documented on this thread



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,844 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Which figures are we talking about, as I'm struggling to see any 1:1 ratio in any figures, leaks, reports etc... You're the only one mentioning a 1:1 ratio.


    As I mentioned earlier in the thread, assuming the September public figure announced by Ukraine on Ukrainian KIA is correct and you work out the monthly average and add on the September to Feb months (up to the leak date) that gives a broadly similar figure to the leak.

    The same leaks list Russian military losses, there's no indication that it includes Wagner or DPR figures etc.... In Bakhmut, the US specifically mention Wagner losses specifically. They seem to differentiate Russian army/DPR/Wagner figures.

    Now again I'll ask, can you show where you got the 1:1 ratio figure? It's not Ukrainian figures, it's not the US leak, it's not the Russian official figures, nor the UK estimates or even the NATO estimates. You didn't just make it up did you?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,286 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    UK, USA, EU, NATO are like a cat, playing with Russia for months on end, when they could just end it in a flash. World is too PC, if this was 1942 the Crimea Bridge would be flattened to a pile of rubble in one swoop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Mike3549




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,306 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Then the original point made is right. You were asked if you had read it wrong as it was a story about Ukraine threatening the ships.

    You said you hadn't which then implies that you claimed Ukraine had previously targeted civilian ships.

    You were asked to clarify and instead didn't bother yer hole. A simple, "Yeah, read it wrong" was all that was needed. Instead you doubled down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Your taking figures likely from one source estimating losses on other month's to get another estimated figure from the same source, then trying to guess DPR , Wagner, Russian forces,

    There is 2 figures for KIA , Russian and Ukrainian but the everyone on here keeps saying well Ukraine say Russian losses are in the hundreds of thousands for war and rising,the same source Ukraine won't release any figures about their losses since the start of the war ,

    So how can you estimate any figures when don't have any real numbers in the first place,only what is being claimed by Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭Economics101


    I think we've been over this ground before, but: (a) do the Ukrainian numbers include Wagner, but the Russian numbers do not?; (b) do the Ukrainian numbers include Luhansk and Donetsk militias but the Russian ones do not?; (c) Do the Russian numbers include only those verified and identified, as opposed to those who are missing in action, i.e. left to die without any medical treatment?

    Recall also that there have been indications that the Wagner and Militia casualty rates have been higher than those of the official Russian Federation armed forces.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I've seen it all. So this war's prosecution is now somehow too PC / Woke because the Western sides are not throwing themselves in feet first?

    If America, the EU, NATO put boots on the ground, or take direct & accountable action against Russia assets and soil - then it's World War 3. Or something close enough that it won't matter.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Putin -Poland western territories were a gift from Stalin , Poland was involved in Czechoslovakia,






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Vadym Prystaiko Ukrainian ambassador to the UK was sacked after lasts weeks Ben Wallace comments about the UK not being Ukraine's Amazon for weapons,

    How else can we show our gratitude?" Mr Zelensky said in response to the defence minister's comments. "We can wake up in the morning and thank the minister. Let him write to me and tell me how to thank him

    He had called Mr Zelensky's promise to thank the UK defence minister every morning "unhealthy sarcasm

    Seem harsh ,





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,286 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Nope, it ends it, just like it did with Japan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    But they do have the ability to end this war pretty quickly,and they could have ended it before it even started ,but no they sat back and waited before sending weapons and munitions and NATO stores are running low and the stores of exsoviet equipment are likely completely gone through in Europe,they might now find it difficult to keep supplying Ukraine everything it needs to win this war,

    People laughed when Trump called out NATO spending a few years ago,and somehow he was actually right,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,568 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Genuinely surprised it took this long. He's been quite negative about the situation on the war and critical of military officials.

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,703 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Not only the MOD but Putin himself. Multiple times hes called Putin out as a doddering idiot or a senile Grandpa. It's amazing that hes lasted this long. You'd wonder what's changed internally if this turns out to be true.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,395 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    The original leaks were spot on about many things not in the public domain (the formation of the new NATO trained brigades, the state of Ukrainian air defence, the delays in equipment for the counter offensive). Also the estimate of the Russian dead is a very close match to the separate BBC investigation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,395 ✭✭✭✭Francie Barrett


    First video of Girkin in detention.

    Funny reading the Russian reactions on Telegram. Most are happy at his arrest and not pleased he's been talking down the war effort for as long as he has.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭macraignil


    Not aware of the details of a BBC investigation on the issue or where they claim to source data for their estimates. Don't think I would trust numbers from sources outside Ukraine with a long distance from the offices of the BBC and the intelligence services of the USA to the places where moskovyte deaths are taking place even if the documents being quoted weren't described as altered by the authorities that produced them. Russia lies about everything so that leaves the Ukrainians who are at the front lines where the forces of putin are being eliminated as the only potentially accurate source in my opinion. Their count on putins forces eliminated to date in the recent invasion of their country puts moskovyte looses a considerable amount higher than those that you posted.



This discussion has been closed.
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