Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

A very easy choice for Kleyn. No argument (from most)

However, the rule change....needs another change!

I'd be very surprised if Kleyn actually makes the SA WC squad all the same.

Is there any other players that could do this either away form irleland or to Ireland?

Obviously off the top of my head john cooney could play for Scotland or luke mcgrath for the US Jordan murphy to spain or less likely again zebo to France. but could ireland benefit from anyone.. apart from maybe Freddie burns :).

It might be beneficial for one of the proviences if they found a capped Tighthead from South africa or england who hasn't played international rugby in 3 years who has an irish grand parent.

Even for a squad player in a one of the proviences.

Kleyn wanted to play all of his games for Ireland once he committed. Ireland chose to freeze him out and now they've lost him.

No No No, James Lowe had a picture of Denis Hickie hanging over his bed when he was growing up

In fact, I'm pretty sure Lowe had never even heard of Jonah Lumu until someone mentioned him at a training session in at Irish camp

I don’t understand why people are pissed about Kleyn. Half these people called him a journeyman and not good enough for ireland. Why would we care if he left then?

Also, his attitude is the same as anyone who moved to ireland to play rugby with the possibility of playing for us. None of those guys dreamed of playing for ireland. We are their second choice .

There are 2 scenarios at play around these rules

1. Players from Tier 2 countries who went abroad and qualified for Tier 1 nations and chose to play international rugby for the Tier 1 nation instead of the Tier 2 nation that would have selected them in a heartbeat
2. Players from Tier 1 nations who would have preferred to play international rugby for their own country but were told that they would not be in the picture so they left to try to build a career elsewhere

Why are category 1 players somehow morally better for going back to play with their home country than category 2 players?

In scenario 1, it's a 'mercinary' who rejected their country of birth to play for a better country

In scenario 2, it's a player who was rejected by their country of birth who felt they could do better than waiting for them to change their mind and call them up (could be waiting forever)

I'm not passing judgement by the way. Professional rugby players want to play at the highest possible level and if that means playing with the All Blacks instead of Samoa or Tonga, then few people would choose national pride over their own career at the highest level

World rugby wanted to redress the balance caused by capture capping players to tie them to one country, even if that meant international quality players are left sitting around during international windows when their home country are forced to select lower quality players.

That would mean John Cooney (born in Dublin) wouldn’t be eligible for Scotland.

Ah. The great respect card. The little Irish mentality at work. How many players over the years have played for Ireland with heart and soul but didn't have citizenship or a passport?

Back then, I thought that Toner got hosed. I believe that I was right. Kleyn didn't offer much. But then, Ireland were awful.

Wouldn’t you just not want him because ‘he wasn’t good enough’?

Why would the armchair psychology aspect matter after that?

Also, why would ditching a country twice be unforgivable but ditching a country once be ok. By your logic Lowe, Stander, JGP, etc all ditched their home countries because they weren’t good enough. Doing that once = ok, but doing twice = not ok…. is very arbitrary.