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Long application wait times …

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 270 ✭✭Scalachi


    As someone who also lives in Wicklow, I have to, and have given credit where its due, new applications, renewals, EU Permits have always been dealt with very promptly, my last renewal took 8 days from submission to having the card in my hand.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5 2oldowl


    License granted on June the 7th. Application submitted in the first week of January... Gun safe inspected in first week of February, GP and referees called same week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    And still waiting. I'm chasing it up and still getting nowhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 Gazlam


    What do they say is the hold up?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I got told that it's on the Chief Super's desk. It's a renewal for feck sake. Tick the box. Move on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 Gazlam


    Its really unbelievable. I can't complain though. Applied in Feb and had licence in 2 weeks. Latest one is only 3 weeks in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭dalalada




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    As previously stated,

    Applications for, and form and effect of, firearm certificates.

    3.

    (9) A decision on an application for a firearm certificate or its renewal shall be given within 3 months from the date on which the applicant submitted a completed application form.

    Appeal to District Court.

    15A.— (1) An appeal may be made to the District Court by a person aggrieved by any of the following decisions made by an issuing person:


    (a) an issuing person—

    (i) who is required under section 3(9), 4A(7) or 10(4F) to decide on an application within a specified period, and

    (ii) who does not so decide,

    is deemed to have decided to refuse to grant the application,

    (b) the applicant is deemed to have received notice of the decision on the expiration of that period, and


    As 30 days have passed, after the initial 3 months period has expired ( therefore refused), you are deemed to have accepted the original decision

    and as you have not appealed the decision, within the 30 day period for appeal, and it has has expired, your certificate stands expired, and if you have not handed in your firearm, to either dealer or AGS, then you are in possession of an unlicensed firearm.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I won't go down that route yet. It hasn't been refused. My FO was on to me a few months ago about reducing the ammo limit on my licence for it and I agreed to it so the licence is on its way. On the back of a snail, from China it seems.

    The gun is in storage with a gun dealer so I'm not in possession of an unlicenced firearm.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,286 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    Did you hear that from your GP?

    I would be surprised if your GP shared medical information without your permission.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭freddieot


    Most if not all GPs will only state that they have never observed anything while treating you, which in their opinion as a GP, might cause concern if you were to own a firearm. I doubt they would go beyond that, at least without written permission from the patient. My guy would not even put the nature of an illness on a work absence cert once GDPR came in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭pab1997


    103 days later we have success :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 Gazlam


    Happy days. That was a long wait. At least you are sorted.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Grant cert received today.

    21st June.

    26 day turn around.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    The veins in my neck are starting to bulge out at this stage.

    Applied for a renewal for a restricted rifle that I have for a good few years now. I'm never in any trouble, clean as a whistle so no reason for delays etc.

    After waiting patiently for months and months, I contacted the Gardai in April. My FO told me that there was a holdup because the Chief Super was concerned about the ammo limit. I agreed to reduce it so I thought grand, obstacle removed, the licence won't be much longer.

    Over two months since I agreed to the ammo limit reduction and I still have no licence. Today I phoned the Chief Supers office and a lovely woman (not being sarcastic, she was genuinely nice and helpful) told me they didn't have the paperwork, that they never received it.

    She said she'd ring another office to see where the paperwork is and that she'd ring me back. She rang me back within 10 minutes so I can't fault her, she was very helpful and efficient. She said that the paperwork was received in another District Office months ago and that the Chief there said he was concerned about the ammo limit on the application so the Chief sent it back to the FO. The paperwork is now back with my FO for the last two months sitting there and I'm without my gun now for over 6 months (I put it in storage when the licence was out).

    Absolute fcukin joke, it's not good enough by a long shot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Sika98k


    What is really frustrating is that your licence will, eventually, arrive it will be back dated to when your last licence expired. IIRC the grant has no date on it to further fuddle things. I feel sure that is deliberate.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Oh, if only there was a way to seek legal redress. See post 24 in this thread

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I know that the law says that after 3 months the licence is deemed to be refused. Lets be honest though, the Gardai often take longer than that to process applications/renewals and, in practice, an awful lot of us have gotten their licenses well after the 3 month time limit has elapsed. I have gotten licenses after six months has elapsed in the past. Thankfully that isn't the norm. Having spoken to the FO a few months ago, the license wasn't refused. It was in progress. The hold up was related to the ammo limit but that was clarified.

    What should have happened then is that the paperwork should have been forwarded to the Chief Super. For some reason it wasn't. It was sent between offices and then back to the FO's station. I'd imagine it's sitting in a tray in the FO's station waiting for him to complete his end of it and forward it to the Chief Super's office.

    While I'm frustrated as fcuk, it's not reached the stage where I'm going to engage a solicitor and take the Chief Super to court over what is a delay rather than a refusal. The FO is back on Tuesday so I'll haunt him for the next week or two.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I could but it's a bit premature for that. I'll try the informal route until I either get the license or exhaust my patience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭CharlieR


    well I got mine after 4 months, got my 1000 rounds and moderater



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Thought I'd stick this in here since it is the thread with the most traffic in disgruntled licence holders ;-)

    Thread here with a survey of firearms licence wait times across the country:

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058304131/firearms-certificate-waiting-times-survey

    Only been up a short while, on a Friday evening no less, but already seeing quite a few responses.

    Though if I had to guess I'd say my district will be the the winner of the longest waiting periods section :-D

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    My saga continues.

    Despite me having the gun for the guts of 10 years, and having the CPO out twice to inspect my security, the 'new Chief' wants another CPO report on my security arrangements even though nothing has changed. So I've to wait for the CPO to come out and inspect the same things that were checked twice already. This is seriously acting the boll1x.

    It's still not a refusal though..............and my licence is out since November 2022. So much for the three months thing eh.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 40,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭dalalada




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 590 ✭✭✭JP22


    Setting aside our other greater issues regarding firearms/firearms licensing, etc., this looks like sheer incompetence at a local level in completing the necessary steps/documentation.

    The mind boggles………., one wonders how anything complex gets done in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I'm starting to think that they are being told to fcuk with us. I know that's heading off into conspiracy theory territory but if the shoe fits.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Been telling you that for years, and the fact that everybody lets them away with it, only emboldens them to go further

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    CPO came out to check my security arrangements last week and was happy so the report should be with the Chief Super now.

    Anyone want to take bets as to whether I'll have my licence before its one year expiry (it expired last November)?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭dalalada


    4 months since lodgement and nothing. Will update



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Finally. Got the usual letter saying the CS is prepared to grant me the renewal subject to blah blah blah conditions. Hopefully I'll get the grant letter in the next week or so. Licence is out since last November.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭dalalada




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,789 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I thought so too but the grant letter arrived yesterday. Anyone got a lend of €80?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭Vizzy


    If you save €2 a week since last November, you'd have it by now 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭dalalada


    Restricted Licence granted. I have been lucky that my FO and new chief super are professional, unbiased and mutually respectful. Credit where it’s due. Excellent to deal with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭BSA International


    Post edited by BSA International on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭dalalada


    It’s a restricted. They usually take longer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 564 ✭✭✭BSA International


    They're not supposed to.

    Accepting and complimenting shoddy service condones it.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭freddieot


    Max time allowed is 3 months for either a yes or a no. Anything else is in breach of the law, nevermind AGSs own policy, so a long way from respectful.

    Pretty shoddy TBH. I've never experienced a 5 month delay in over 30 years. Just because it did not take longer, which unfortunately some have to suffer, does not mean it's still not a typical unprofessional performance. Giving applause for anything other than proper service simply makes the issue worse for all of us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 SPINLOX


    8 weeks waiting for.an answer on a substitution rifle. Ridiculous,guard told me 3 weeks ago that there was no problem and that the letter would be with me the following week. I'm going to look for a Meeting to get an answer. I've had firearms for nearly 30 years and no problem



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,237 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Daughter is now in week 16 waiting for a licence for her first gun.

    The usual fuckery and bollixing about that always seems to go on here in Cavan.

    Sports shop owner in town tells me the new Super is very anti-firearms.

    Shop owner had a man in looking for a gun safe, on Supers orders at renewal time.

    Man has one gun, a single barrel Baikal, worth about €50, and owned without issue for the last 30 years.

    He bought a €200 gun safe ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    SI 307/2009 requires only a trigger-lock and disassembly,

    Commissioner guidelines extends this to some extent, with

    the important word being "REASONABLE".

    The next paragraph, remember these are guidelines and NOT LAW, tries to extend this,

    If the "public safety and peace" is threathened by this individual, why was the licence issued in the first place.

    Previous court cases have found that applicants for FAC's cannot be refused on the grounds that there is crime in the area or criminals could get them (that is up to gardai to sort out).

    The problem is that people do not want to "rock the boat" or are too afraid to confront gardai, but for the sake of €20 fee to appeal to district court and have Super or Chief stand up in court, in front of a Judge and stand-over and explain his decision.

    People need to grow a pair and stand up to these bullies instead of just complaining on anonymous fora.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    @tonysopprano SI 307/2009 requires only a trigger-lock and disassembly

    As a minimum standard. Meaning a higher level of security can be demanded if the deciding officer seems it necessary.

    So when you say previous court cases determined an application cannot be refused bases on the area an applicant lives in or the crime rates in that area you may well be correct, but the deciding officer can then impose a higher level of security to "offset" this and the SI above allows for this with the term minimum standards.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Disagree 100%. The LAW states that you have to comply with the MINIMUM standard as stated (lowest common denominator). https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/si/307/made/en/print

    "shall comply with the minimum standards in relation to the provision of secure accommodation for those firearms specified "

    Nowhere does it state that there are other standards.

    Minimum Thread depths on tyres are 1.6mm, I cannot be prosecuted or forced to have 2.5mm threads.

    Garda Commissioners GUIDELINES are just that GUIDELINES and are not LAW, no matter how much they think so

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 827 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    And just as an example, only yesterday in the Appeal court, a case came up showing just how little both prosecution and defence counsel's AND the actual judge know about law.

    A conviction for careless driving causing death, where both counsel's agreed and told judge that a 4 year ban needed to be imposed, duly imposed by the judge, was overturned, <mod snip>

    Post edited by Cass on

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,664 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    "Nowhere does it state that there are other standards".

    Right below level one security are the "other standards".

    Because you have level one (where it is applicable) only means you have met the minimum standard required for applying.

    The tyre analogy is not germane so moot.

    As for the guidelines, SI 307/2009 is a law, not a guideline.

    The appeal court thing has no bearing on this topic. Also I've edited the last line as it could be construed as technical contempt of court so had to be removed.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭sthilmick


    Whats the actual maximum wait time for a substitution? I was told 14 days. I'm over the that. I spoke to the firearms officer and was told it was on the Supers desk for the last couple of weeks. Or is it a "timely manner"?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 1,646 Mod ✭✭✭✭otmmyboy2


    Technically it is another license, so same max of 3 months.

    The 2 weeks comes from the commissioners guidelines and is very much a guideline.

    Most districts are faster with subs than renewals or new applications, but it varies.

    One district could be 3 months for a renewal and 2 months for a sub.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    S.I. No. 21/2008 - Firearms (Restricted Firearms and Ammunition) Order 2008 - Firearm types restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban, ammo storage & transport restricted

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2023 - 2023 Firearm Ban (retroactive to 8 years prior)



  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭sthilmick


    Much appreciated Otmmyboy2. You'd hear conflicting opinions on the matter I assumed it would be a max of 90 days just hoping for it to be less. Guide lines for one laws for the other. Not what our Grandfather's fought for.



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