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Eddi issues

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    #152
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601555#Comment_120601555

    No I think its 160 or 180L. Not a 200, I know that.



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    #153
    DC999
    Registered Users Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭DC999


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601507#Comment_120601507

    What's difference with your type and Willis? All new to me. Class idea in the sense u can cram more kWhs in instead of getting a giant tank.



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    #154
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601507#Comment_120601507
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120600938#Comment_120600938

    You could add another relay[eg one with an inbuilt Esp8266] in parallel to the eddi relay board if you want to also control it from home assistant, .. pre empt the tank from cutting out



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    #155
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601630#Comment_120601630

    The Willis is an external immersion basically like a normal immersion heater in a little can that's plumbed into the tank. It's connected to the Eddi as an immersion heater. If installed correctly it should sort of mix the water - but it needs to be done right and one of the downsides is that the water can get very hot. Many recommend fitting thermostatic mixing valves to avoid scalding due to this. It needs someone quite skilled with them to install or you could end up with a mess.

    In my case I have a standard tank with top mount immersion. The immersion is connected to an Eddi and that Eddi now has the add-on sensor and relay board. The pump is connected to this. The add-on board brings different menus and functions to the Eddi including an option to run a destratification cycle. Basically when the heater (immersion) reaches the max temp it will trigger the relay for the pump running it. The pump pulls hot water from the top of the tank and pushes that into the bottom mixing the tank and avoiding the layers (hot, warm, cold). In doing so the top of the tank temperature is reduced and it can begin heating again... and the cycle goes on. In the end you get your 50 or 60C evenly heated tank rather than 60C at the top and 20C at the bottom.



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    #156
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    Here it is in action. Eddi is running the function it's just easier to show in homeassistant.

    Screenshot_20230516-122322_Home Assistant.jpg




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    #157
    bullit_dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,486 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Kinda neat - although is 45C the max temp that you heat the water to? Most people would be 55C-60C, so if 45C is your max limit, then your selling yourself short there I think. You should up the thermostat to 55/60



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    #158
    micks_address
    Registered Users Posts: 8,515 ✭✭✭micks_address


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603466#Comment_120603466

    i had to turn down the stat (again) on our immersion... found the water to hot... have it at 55c now... and the flow temp on the gas is 60.... use the gas to heat each morning and the eddi to top up each day



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    #159
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603466#Comment_120603466

    No, it will now heat more than 45C but it's early enough in the day. Here you're seeing exactly why such a system is required. See a fuller picture below.

    The immersion is top mounted but won't heat the full tank, only what it can reach down to. The stat on the immersion is above where the boiler stat is. What happens then is Eddi heats via immersion and at the end of the immersion (crude drawing) is 60C, but down where the boiler stat is the temp is more like 40C. The gas comes on in the evening and heats the tank to 55C.

    Although Eddi lifted a little bit of the weight it's not enough to heat the tank fully and avoid the use of gas. So once it hit the max temp excess goes to Zappi or out the door.

    In this setup now with the pump, once the immersion stat reaches 60C the Eddi will fire the pump on relay 1 which pushes hot water from the top to the base of the tank mixing it up. Once the top temp reduces sufficiently, Eddi will resume sending power to the immersion and continue heating.

    I have it set to stop at 55C by the way. The entire tank should be closer to this due to the mixing so you should avoid 70C coming out to the taps. Effectively it's more hot usable water.

    20230516_133922~2.jpg




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    #160
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    Got "top" and bottom up to 49C at the end and eddi showing Max Temp Reached so the tank was most likely around 50-60C throughout, or thereabouts. I'm not entirely happy with how and how long the destrat function is going off but I think I can trigger the relay with the temp sensors also. It may avoid some of the stop start also. I'm checking into that. If I can't get Eddi to handle all it on device (preferred) then I'll have homeassistant control the pump.

    Total into tank today - 8.82kWh.



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    #161
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605480#Comment_120605480

    Could you make a hole in the insulation at the top and put a temperature sensor there to get a truer "top"

    Edit this is my hot water tank right at the very top shoved under the insulation

    Screenshot_20230516-210214.png




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    #162
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605500#Comment_120605500

    I mean I suppose I could but the "upper" position is intended to match the gas boiler thermostat position to see that reading. I'm not sure the value of moving it further up.



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    #163
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605527#Comment_120605527

    More sensors! 😆 Or is 2 the max you can have.



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    #164
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭John.G


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603608#Comment_120603608

    Is there some reason for not installing a dual immersion, using the longer one (at times) might reduce the destrat pump running times.



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    #165
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605714#Comment_120605714

    Very hard to get a long enough one!

    But the twin immersion is kinda useless with an eddi as they share the same thermostat. So if you heat the sink it will knock off the bath.



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    #166
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605714#Comment_120605714

    The tank has the longest immersion possible. Tried this avenue last year but no dice. Any longer and it fouls on the coil for the central heating.

    Other option I looked at was changing the tank for one with dual side immersions but that was much more expensive. It's not a standard item.



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    #167
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120605594#Comment_120605594

    Max is 2 for Eddi



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    #168
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    Day of trial and error trying to figure out how to get it to perform better. The myenergi wiki has some info but it's limited and the forums over there are of limited help.

    What I figured in the end is that if you have the PT1000 sensors connected then you can raise the immersion thermostat temp and use the readings from the sensors instead. This stops the situation where I'm hitting 45C and that's it. So, that sorted the issue on the ceiling.

    The error part comes in the temperature settings. I think I had it set as 55/55 but the lower temperature was struggling to get above 48-50 and that was forcing the pump to run far too much. I've currently got it set to 52/47 but wondering now if I'm doing it right... should I have it set to something like 50/55 with the lower temp higher?

    7.4kWh into the tank today. Part of that I think is the temperature is being brought up and kept higher.



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    #169
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609391#Comment_120609391

    You want to be triggering the pump just before the immersion kicks off.

    You mentioned the immersion fouling off the coil for the gas, you might need to rise the top thermometer a bit anyway to make sure your measuring water heated by the immersion.



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    #170
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609503#Comment_120609503

    The immersion stat has been set to 70C now and the eddi temp probes are running the show instead. The destrat program on the eddi runs for the "check period" duration set in the priority menu (non-relay board specific). I think I have 10 mins now. This starts the pump on relay 1 when max temp reached is hit. That's now based on the temp probes and usually the upper.



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    #171
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭John.G



    Are you just using the eddie (diverted power) to power the immersion with the gas as a back up?

    If no solar power available, say in some winter days, the boiler stat, if still (re) located high up in the cylinder will not fire the boiler until ~ 2/3 rds of the HW used up?.

    What length is the immersion element?

    What length is the immersion stat rod?.



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    #172
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610103#Comment_120610103

    Yes, although I currently have the gas off entirely but that's the plan.

    If insufficient solar then the gas will heat the water in the evening. No change on that setup, it's doing what it does if the gas DHW stat calls for heat.

    I think its 27" immersion with an 11" stat.



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    #173
    Jonathan
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610240#Comment_120610240

    Not overly familiar with the Eddi relay board settings, but are you saying that the relay is either manual control or automatic control, but not both?

    Seems like HA would afford you much more control, and provide functionality similar to a Mixergy cylinder if set up correctly. You'd also have information on the expected remaining generation etc, so you may wish to run the relay well before max temp reached.


    P.S. Get some lagging for that new recirculation pipe.



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    #174
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610300#Comment_120610300

    Exactly. It's either or. I can have the Eddi handle the destrat program, or I could switch it to "boost" function and I can force it in homeassistant.

    If I do the latter, there's a risk if the server is unavailable that it won't run properly - but I could probably have it running smarter.


    How would I go about setting that up? I can put together automations no bother but it's the logic that has me stumped. Maybe this is one for the automations thread...


    Thanks, I'll grab some insulation for that at the weekend. I have a gap on the tank insulation at the bottom where the gas boiler stat was moved from. Any suggestions on what to fill that with?



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    #175
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭John.G


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610240#Comment_120610240

    The change in the Gas heating set up now is that it won't call for heat until ~ 2/3 rds of HW is used up, I understand that from maximizing the diverted power but if it hasn't called for heat the previous evening or whenever and if there is a big draw off of HW in the morning then a risk of a shortage of HW except the cylinder has a fast recovery coil. Anyway you can allways reposition the boiler stat if necessary.



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    #176
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    OK, I've been playing with this for the past few days. As Jonathan mentioned above, it would be better to run the pump before the max temp is reached. Having a think about it that has two benefits - avoids excessively hot water at the top, and also avoids the pause in the eddi divert where you would be exporting while it reverts back to needing heat.

    With that in mind, I switched the Eddi to boost mode for the relay and have it being triggered in homeassistant. I won't put the full automation here as the sensors include serial numbers etc but here's an outline on when I'm triggering it. It's somewhat of a work in progress but is working.

    Trigger 1 -

    More than 5C difference between upper and lower temperatures

    Upper temp is 45C or greater

    Eddi power is above 700W

    Pump has been off for at least 15 minutes

    Time is between 7am & 9.30pm -

     

    Trigger 2 -

    Eddi in Max temp reached status

    Lower temp is below 55C* - this was 50C, updated to 55 today.

    Export power is greater than 850W

    Pump has been off for at least 15 minutes

    Time is between 7am & 9.30pm

     

    By this way I'm trying to ensure that the temperatures are tracking each other and it won't mix if the Eddi has stopped heating. This means there should be at least some hot water rather than all luke warm.

    See yesterday below for example. There's some usage in there also which is why you see the lower temp drop.

    image.png


    Post edited by silver_sky on


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    #177
    graememk
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 5,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631461#Comment_120631461

    Looking good!

    What way does your pump.. pump,?

    Top into bottom or bottom into top?



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    #178
    silver_sky
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭silver_sky


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631691#Comment_120631691

    Top into bottom.

    I've adjusted the temperatures again with upper as 60 and lower as 55. I think that's probably more sensible for storage, although possibly more than we'll use.



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    #179
    mhtc
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭mhtc


    @bullit_dodger Continuing on from here :) https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120666551/#Comment_120666551

    I assume that you don't have a battery

    That's correct no battery.

    Also you should let people know if your on "deemed export" or metered export

    I think this is the "Deemed export" on this day: 9.1kWh

    image.png

    and finally what tariff your on. (peak/offpeak/low)

    Standard plan (same rate all day)

    Basically wondering if better to have the multiple heating periods, or have just the main one in the morning and push to grid for the rest of the day.



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    #180
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668432#Comment_120668432

    The way I do it is to let the eddi heat the water to max. Then I go into the app and hit the "stop" button and export for a few hours while checking the max temp on the eddi app. Depending on water use in the house I may or may not turn back on the eddi until the following day.


    Most days heating once give me a tank that lasts the whole day.

    You can also change the times the eddi checks the temperature of the water in the menu. Its set at default of 15 minutes meaning it will check to see if it needs topping up every 15 minutes. Might be worth having a mess around with that to see if you can export more.



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    #181
    bullit_dodger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,486 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120668483#Comment_120668483

    Why do you hit the STOP button if you've heated the water to Max? I mean the EDDI is effectively in STOP mode anyway and not heating water as the thermostat has knocked off the heating element. If and when the thermostat resets, the water is likely only to be 3-4C off it's target temp.

    Let's say you set the thermostat to 60C. It will bring the tank up to 60C and then cut off. Over the next hour or two, the tank will slowly lose temperature due to heat losses until it gets low enough for the thermostat to allow heating again. But at this stage, it's probably only at 55-56C and it only has to heat up the water 4-5C (a small effort) and your back at 60C......and the cycle repeats. Those little boosts from 55c->60c probably only use 100's of Watts.



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