Wildflower Meadow Attempt

Thargor · 29-05-2023 1:18am #1

Hi Ive mentioned this in a couple of places now but this is going to be my main thread about it for questions and troubleshooting as Im starting this week. Will post pics later.

I dont want to use roundup at all and theres no way Im getting a chain harrow or any machinery in by my small side alley. My plan was to just buy two 4X5 meter tarps from B&Q and weigh them down now after getting the grass strimmed and mowed, leave them until Sept then remove them and rake the area regularly and remove any weeds that spring up/let the birds at it for a couple of weeks then seed it all with the meadow mix from wildflowers.ie.

Do you think that will work? The tarps wont be the clear plastic they recommend for solarization of the soil which I have no idea where I would even get (dont want to use that much single-use plastic for one job either) but Ive seen plenty of other places saying just blocking light for that long will do the job just as well. Or is there a better way of doing this? Ill post pics later but basically those 2 tarps will perfectly fill the bulk of the garden while leaving a big H or 8 shaped path of normal grass throughout.

looksee · 29-05-2023 9:27am

Don't underestimate the advice to have poor soil for your meadow. I saw a lovely meadow yesterday that was mostly ox-eye daisies and poppies growing out of very poor soil. In some places, on paths, some of the poppies were tiny the soil was so poor, but the rest made a great show, along with dozens of other species, often less showy but adding their own charm. Comfrey, weld, Scarlet Pimpernel, red clover, vetch, thistles, stitchwort, coltsfoot, sorrel, plus lots of plants I didn't know the names of. Killing existing vegetation will not remove it permanently, in due course what was growing there before will come back, meantime the weeds aka wildflowers that would grow there naturally are being pushed aside for plants that may or may not colonise.

Speedsie · 29-05-2023 10:44am

There does seem to be a misconception that wildflowers are somehow different to weeds. Weeds are just plants in the 'wrong' place. My late father, born in the 20s, was an arable farmer, he would say a rose bush in his cornfield was a weed. But that corn in the rose garden was also a weed.

Embrace the 'weeds' in your wildflower meadow. Nettles are a valuable food source for many butterflies (peacock, tortoiseshell etc). The beautiful cinnabar moth requires ragwort. Your local wildflowers/weeds will find their way to your patch, or you could harvest seeds in the locality as well as relying on bought in mixes.

You will need to reduce the fertility of the existing grass land. Yellow rattle will parasitize the grass and weaken it.

This will take time, it's a marathon not a sprint!

You are doing great though, keep up the good work!

The Continental Op · 29-05-2023 1:13pm

OP hire one of these

or buy on of these - you seem to like doing things the hard way

and strip all the turf off the site.

Stack the turf in a wide narrow wall, cover it with a tarpaulin and in a years time you'll have the loam they talk about for compost mixes, but otherwise its just great quality soil.

Then you are starting off with lower fertility which as already pointed out greatly improves the chances of wildflowers growing over strong grass growth. You will in the process cut the roots of a few deep rooted weeds which may want removing as the re-immerge.

Thargor · 29-05-2023 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120652982#Comment_120652982

The two 4X5 meter areas I mark out will be left wild, whatever happens happens, the wildflower.ie seeds will just be a once off helping hand at the start, Ill also be doing a pack of yellow rattle with them, I already have a big nettle patch and I wont be killing any ragwort that might appear either.

Thargor · 29-05-2023 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120653577#Comment_120653577

The turf cutter machine is a good idea actually, Im surrounded by tool hire places here. Are they idiot proof to use? I dont have a whole lot of power tool experience.

Would people agree thats a better way of laying the initial seedbed for a wild meadow compared to the tarp method?

Water John · 29-05-2023 8:47pm

Maybe don't take off the tarp until next March, then rake to create a lazy or stale bed, if that's what you want to do. By raking you awaken the dormant seeds bank. Do you rake every 10 days to kill off most of the seed bank or do you let the natural seed bank form part of your wild flower meadow. I wouldn't leave soil bare over the winter. Farmers aren't even allowed do that anymore.

victor8600 · 29-05-2023 8:55pm

I had planted wildflowers on a 0.5 ac hillside plot 8 years ago. The grass sod had to be removed completely, because the site was not maintained for years and the sod was a 15-20 cm thick matt of roots and dead grass, nothing would grow through that. To expose the bare soil, an excavator front blade was used, and the grass was buried in trenches. I have then raked the site and manually planted the widlflower seed mix (from wildflowers.ie). The first 3 years, it was very wild and pretty, but then the grass started to dominate again. Right now it looks like a grass meadow with a lot of wildflowers, still good, but not as pretty as before.

The advice is to mow the plot in the autumn and remove the cuttings to keep the soil poorer. Plus plant yellow rattle to keep the grass under control.

The Continental Op · 29-05-2023 8:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655466#Comment_120655466

All the turf cutting machine is is a motor moving wheels and a cutter set underneath. The cutter usually vibrates so it cuts better.

Probably everything you need to know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drf6TpZflCI

In your case I'd consider cutting a nice thick turf so you are removing as much good topsoil as possible. Worth cutting the grass first.

Water John · 29-05-2023 9:02pm

It's a wild flower meadow. That means it contains grasses IWT. Should one plant some of the older grasses, such as Timothy, Fescues and they would then keep the other grasses in check.

Thargor · 29-05-2023 9:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655521#Comment_120655521

Thats the plan then thanks a million for that I wouldn't have thought of that at all, looks like it will be actually cheaper to rent one than buy the big tarps.

victor8600 · 29-05-2023 9:05pm

June 2022. 7 years after stripping grass to bare soil and planting a wildflower mix.

Thargor · 29-05-2023 9:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655514#Comment_120655514

Yeah definitely goint to be lots of the yellow rattle someone already told me to keep hitting it with that in patches every year for the first while. I like the grass meadow look so would be happy with that anyway, even now looking out at foot high grass in the evening sun its pretty great looking, a pure packed area of flowers like we have in our "wild" areas at work might look a bit unnatural.

Thargor · 29-05-2023 9:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655489#Comment_120655489

I thought leaving it bare over Winter would remove a lot of fertility from the soil like you're supposed to no? What time of year should I use the turf cutter then do you think? My plan was to lay the tarps now and then remove them in September, rake the soil clear for the birds, remove anything that tries to come up for the next couple of weeks then plant the wildflower seed at the start of October for germination in Spring leaving the soil fairly bare all Winter.

The tarps idea has now been replaced with the turf cutter but the timing and everything else is the same apart from that, is there a better way?

Water John · 29-05-2023 9:27pm

I set wild flower seed Mid Sept last and it largely failed. But it could be this idiot, but I don't know what I did wrong.😔

Thargor · 29-05-2023 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655563#Comment_120655563

I would have no problem with that whatsoever, thats spectacular looking.

bakerbhoy · 30-05-2023 6:50am

When is the best time to sow the yellow rattle. I autumn sowed two years ago and completely failed.

Bellie1 · 30-05-2023 1:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655563#Comment_120655563

Did you cut each autumn and take away ?

Bellie1 · 30-05-2023 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655571#Comment_120655571

When you say to hit with yellow rattle, you'd almost have to sow by pressing into soil with fingers bit by bit after year one ? There would be too many flowers etc to sow yellow rattle otherwise? I had this dilemma when tried introducing rattle last autumn into a small wildflower patch, trying to find bare patches of earth in between the flowers to press the rattle in. Took ages. Can't imagine doing in a big plot

victor8600 · 30-05-2023 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657705#Comment_120657705

No, I didn't. I only started doing it last autumn.

Thargor · 30-05-2023 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657735#Comment_120657735

I was picturing making clear spaces for a few plants in the patch with a spade, nothing major just enough to let it establish, grow it in clumps then rake the seeds around every September, long term project, Ill be mixing a good bit extra of yellow rattle into the wildflower.ie meadow seed aswell.

Alternatively placing a few rocks or roof tiles in strategic places in Winter, germinating the yellow rattle myself in my conservatory and transplant it onto these bare patches again in clumps not single plants in Spring (or whenever is best, Ill see what my research brings.

I signed up to the wildflower.ie nature walk/open day in July aswell down in Tipp so Ill have a list of questions ready for the main experts on the island that day.

Bellie1 · 30-05-2023 7:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658399#Comment_120658399

Come back and let us know what you learn. Have encouraged a few people with some big lawned areas to do wildflower meadows so want to make sure they do it right or they'll blame me! If raking the yellow rattle, is the raking not going to destroy the existing cut down plants? Ill have to do it to know exactly what you're on about I guess.

delboythedub · 30-05-2023 8:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058298303/wildflower-meadow-attempt

Elderly Gentleman who looks after parts of our estate "Says "1.mow the lawn 2. collect the grass cuttings 3. spread the Wildflower Seeds 4. cover the seeds with the saved grass cuttings.

Thargor · 30-05-2023 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659222#Comment_120659222

Im the last person you should be asking for gardening knowledge especially how to do a wildflower meadow but the one thing pretty much every tutorial on the subject agrees on is to cut it down in September/October, let it lie for a few days if possible to shed its seed then rake it all up to give it a good final shake/expose a bit of soil for the falling seeds/protect from birds and remove the cuttings somewhere else, yellow rattle gets its name because of the seeds rattling in their pod, I imagine planting a few clumps of it to make little seed factories.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659467#Comment_120659467

Interesting, something for the list of questions to ask the experts about I suppose but Ive literally never seen that advice in the many hours of reading and Youtube Ive done on this subject, Ill report back what they say, it would be absolutely ideal if it works!

Danzy · 30-05-2023 9:18pm

Grass cuttings are the harshest enemy of wild flowers.

The more you take away grass cuttings, the more wild flowers you'll have down the line. The less you do it, it will finish the show in a short few years.

Water John · 30-05-2023 9:19pm

What that elderly gentleman recommends is quite similar to what is sometimes used in farming situations. Harvesting hay bales in July, when it has lots of seeds. Then feeding them as winterage to cattle on ground where you want to improve the plant diversity. You roll out the bale and the cattle both eat and trample it. Some seeds also go through their digestive system. The seeds are all walked in by the cattle.

Bill Hook · 30-05-2023 9:51pm

There's lots of useful information about creating a wildflower meadow on Biodiversity Ireland's website:

https://biodiversityireland.ie/faq/should-i-buy-wildflower-seed/

I'm on year 4 of "wilding" the front lawn (roughly 20m x 4m) by sowing yellow rattle into the tightly cut and roughly raked existing lawn. The yellow rattle grew best in two spots where the vegetation had been killed by two round straw bales which I had left there over the summer (by accident, not design). Each year I cut it once late in the year (sept/oct), leave the hay on the ground for a week (or more) and then rake it off.

If I get around to it I run the lawnmower over it so it is really short when the spring bulbs (crocus, early tulips) emerge. Because it is the front garden I planted bulbs for a succession of colour interest in the spring (crocus, narcissi, tulips, iris, alliums).

The yellow rattle has bulked up/spread and is starting to flower now.

I collected the yellow rattle myself by using the Biodiversity Ireland website to find the closest patch of it to my house.

SnowyMuckish · 30-05-2023 10:00pm

This our 3rd year of having a wildflower area in the lawn. This is the first year that I’ve seen the yellow rattle taking off. I’d imagine its impact will show next year, will interesting to see the development!