Wildflower Meadow Attempt

Thargor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120653577#Comment_120653577

That turf cutter is actually a massive machine and I have no way of moving it from the rental place on the other side of town, do you think Id get away with using a rototiller on the ground instead to prepare the seedbed? I can get my hands on one of these easily enough from a neighbour down at the parents:

https://www.chadwicks.ie/garden-tiller-till-garden-tiller-till-garden-tiller-till.html

If I do it once and keep it hand tilled with a rake until sowing time would that have the same effect do you think? Wildflowers.ie even says:

Pre Sowing Instructions

The best meadows are started well in advance of sowing wildflowers. Create a weed free soil on well-prepared firm (well rolled) ground. 

Once the soil is free of weeds you can sow the seeds. 

In our nursery, where we can, we are leaving the ground fallow for one year to allow the complete killing of weeds.

Prepare the ground:

Clear the ground of any weeds before sowing by using a systemic weed killer &/or cultivate it 'organically' by tilling the soil repeatedly during the dry summer months.

To prepare the ground, kill and remove all weeds grass and stones. 

Remove anything that will get in the way of cutting machinery to be used later.  

The Continental Op

The only advantage of the turf cutter is that it removes the fertile top spoil if you rotovate it then you are improving the soil unless you then remove some of it. Rotovating is fine but then you need to keep on top of it with a decent dutch hoe which will be a lot of work. If you keep rotovating then you keep bringing weed seeds to the surface.

looksee

I jumped to the conclusion that the OP was creating a wildflower meadow because that is what is mentioned in the title, and is probably what the OP is creating. However its worth mentioning that you do not have to create a meadow, you can create a wildflower area with plants suited to fertile soil.

I have an area on the north side of an old, tall field hedge, hawthorns mostly but other trees, with ferns (not bracken) and foxgloves growing against the remnants of the old stone wall. It is a mix of light shade and heavy shade. The soil is good loamy soil from decades of leaves falling on it. It is free draining. I asked for a quote from Wildflowers.ie and they advised me on wildflowers that will grow on fertile soil in shade - a woodland mix and a hedgerow mix. I have a good bit of work to do to clear the area and will sow it in autumn (recommended for shade areas).

OP have you contacted them for a quote and told them what you are hoping to do? It may be that you can do something with the site as it is, rather than going down the poor soil/meadow route.

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120655489#Comment_120655489

Maybe its obvious but, out of interest, what is the thinking about not leaving soil bare over winter?

I need to remove nettles and grass, there are lots of nettles in the garden, big patches in other parts of the hedgerow. The entire place would be nettles, creeping buttercup and grass if I didn't challenge it. The person who takes a ride-on mower over the greater part of the grass area is offended by the fact that it is a sheen of gold at the moment, keeps giving me tips on how to get rid of weeds 😁

Thargor

Tbh I got a nice thatching rake and it only takes a couple of pulls to strip the grass off, I was surprised at how effortless it was, I could easily do the whole garden this way in a few hours then monitor it over the rest of the Summer before seeding it in Sept/Oct. The wildflowers.ie open day is on Jul 3rd so we'll see what the experts think but I might just end up prepping the seedbeds this way. Ive done a test strip now to see what comes up between now and then.

looksee

Is that the Urlingford day? I misread it as June and was sorry I had missed it. Might make an effort to go since its July, and if I can round up a carful 😀.

techman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659785#Comment_120659785

That's a recipe for a very poor farmer with ground that won't grow much of anything in the summer after being walked and trampled by cattle. I've seen these sort of farms and they are not pretty usually cattle up to their eyes in muck if you feed them outside in Winter. The cattle are usually thin malnourished and pot bellied. That sort of hay is very course and unappealing to cattle they would break out of that field if they got a sniff of properly ensiled grass cut when green and leafy.

Very rare to see this nowadays with cattle as they are worth too much, however still slot of horses abandoned on mucked up fields in winter, very miserable looking too

Livestock died in the good old days when they were fed like this

Water John

The main reason for green cover is to stop nutrient leaching and co2 escaping into the atmosphere.

Thargor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715484#Comment_120715484

Nutrient leaching is what Im after! CO2 not so good but hopefully a nice big chunk of habitat going forward will make up for it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715239#Comment_120715239

Yeah details here, it took them a week to reply to my email FYI:

http://www.wildflowers.ie/wild-zone/open_day/wildflower_growers_open_day.htm

Just noticed this when I was getting you that link actually:

Everyone who pays goes home with free seed to value of €30.00

Water John

Nitrogen I realise gives you leaf, not flowers. That's the only nutrient that you might want to deplete. Then I'm a farmer.

Tree

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715757#Comment_120715757

I got my wildflowers for my suburban wildflower garden from them. Very happy with the result (yeah, you wait for a response and then it's precisely what you need to know).

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715888#Comment_120715888

I got a reply within 48 hours so apparently it varies depending on time of year etc. I haven't bought the seeds yet but what they suggested was dead on.

delboythedub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659467#Comment_120659467

Sorry guys I need to correct my post above as I spoke to the man himself the other day . Cut & collect the grass on the lowest lawnmower setting then pile 4 inches of the cut grass on the area that you wish to sow your wildflower seeds. mix wildflower seeds with compost and spread on this bed of grass cuttings, cover with a bit of topsoil and then walk on it. I will do this in September and where I cut the grass i will also Put my scariffier on this patch to prepare it. apparently the grass cuttings kill the grass under neat which helps to let the wildflower seeds take root.

Thargor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715239#Comment_120715239

Sorry its July 5th not 3rd.

Water John

Delboy, I'll be very interested in the results. My concern would be that the rotting cut grass would inhibit seed germination. Best of luck with it, you're our Giunea pig.

techman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120715776#Comment_120715776

But if you don't have leaf ,you won't have flours because the plant gets it's energy from sunlight on leaves then it can generate flowers. Where does a cherry blossom get all it's flowers in Spring, from energy stored up the season before from all the leaves it had out all that season. A flour is only one part of the lifecycle of a plant by trying to artificially generate wildflowers by removing top soil etc as well as degrading your garden you are also interfering with nature. It's just another artificial surface like a golf course green

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720226#Comment_120720226

I tend to agree with this approach. If you have very poor soil then using it for a wildflower meadow is a good use for it. If you have good soil and want to introduce wildflowers, check out the flowers that will grow on whatever sort of soil you have and encourage them. Changing the structure of your soil doesn't seem like the most ecologically satisfactory solution.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720226#Comment_120720226

Thats logical but totally wrong thinking. The grass is what will take any available nitrogen and use it to grow leaves. We don't want grass competing with the wild flowers so we don't want any more than the minimum amount of nitrogen. I've never put any fertilizer on my lawn in 25 years (before that it was field) and it is still far to fertile to make a good wildflower meadow.

Some wild flowers have particular nutrient requirements but most of all they want a lack of competition. Primulas like a lot of Potash and often do well around the edge of an old bonfire. The bonfire helping reduce the competition from grass and other plants and providing a boost of potash.

techman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720403#Comment_120720403

Well if your garden is too good for wildflowers aren't you lucky, you have soil that was supposed to be growing crops or great trees. The world is full of poor barren soils for growing wildflowers, would it not be better to break up old industrial areas with no top soil anyway for wildflowers etc rather than degrading top quality garden soil for this. If people want to let everything go wild , that's fair enough but ripping out the best of topsoil for this I am totally against. Once that topsoil is removed it rarely gets put back. We have enough encroachment on food growing land as it is from development and urban sprawl, if you have a garden with good soil please leave it alone

Bellie1

Apologies for slightly highjacking the thread but it's a bit relevant. Planted native wildflower mix last year on a patch that neighbours can see..was hoping to encourage them to do similar by making it looks really pretty and we'll(it's facing shared carpark). Last year not so bad, but this year it's dominated by wild carrot(yarrow?) and ox eye daisies and they're outcompeting each other and too tall,flopping over etc. In October am considering digging it all ,. removing and plants roots etc and planting a low growing nativ mix that will look a bit tidier. Not going to use weedkiller so if just dig rotavate(as we did last year) and plant loads of yellow rattle and low growing mix,.that should work? In short term I want to remove a half the wild yarrow to give other species a chance to grow this summer-do I need to dig it up or just cut to the base?

Newtown90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725807#Comment_120725807

Any chance you got that seed in Lidl/Aldi... I had done a patch when i started a few years back and the first year had a lovely variation - every other year after was wild carrot and massive daisys so you're not alone.

I went on and both from elsewhere last year and added extra borage and phacelia for my bees.

Bellie1

No got from connecting to nature website which is reputable . They advertise yarrow and daisies in the mix. I think the issue is that they're dominating other species and have simply grown too tall and are flopping over. In October am going to dig all up and stick to native annuals next year. Or try collecting seed from foxgloves etc locally. The yarrow is mean to be a prolific self seeder so am considering cutting that back down at weekend. It's a shame as it's in a public carpark on my estate and I was hoping to encourage others to do wildflower in their gardens. But this is going to turn them off as just looks ugly and messy

looksee

I bought supposedly ox-eye daisy in a packet, reputable brand, and they were not ox-eye at all, I don't know what they are but they are more like half way to a Shasta daisy, they grow about a foot high then fall over and grow up again another 2 ft, so they are sprawled all over the place and smother everything, they are extremely vigorous. The are in the process of being taken out.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120755408#Comment_120755408

When I was a head gardener another head gardener mate supplied a lot of seeds to a well known bunch of con merchants who I won'T naMe. He said they misnamed a lot of plants in his garden which subsequently turned up in their catalogue. I used to supply seeds for the RHS seed distribution, a lot more honest operation.

lordgoat

Year 3, strong clover year, getting close to balance now. There is a bed with planted perennials at the front

Early years had a lot of yarrow and ox eyes.

People want the end result without having to wait, gardens in general don't work this way, creating an established meadow in a smaller space take a lot of time and planning. Digging it out and starting again just resets the clock.

Bass Reeves

I just came accross this thread. During COVID I set an area in the garden with spud but there was potato eelworms in the ground so that stopped growing the potato.

I had done nothing with it since so I dug it out in February and raked it out in late March and kept it raked out. I came accross this box of wild flower seeds and I planted them in late April

IMG20230630153932.jpg

I put in a dwarf grass seed with them and intend to cut back in late July/ August. At present it looks like.

IMG20230630153855.jpg

IMG20230628194232.jpg

Thargor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120787811#Comment_120787811

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120787879#Comment_120787879

Those are both stunning thanks for posting, if I get 10% of that result Ill be happy.

Bellie1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120787811#Comment_120787811

That's gorgeous. So just because have mostly yarrow and ox eye daisy this year, doesn't mean next year will be the same? Was considering digging up and starting afresh but now you've given me hope

lordgoat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120790481#Comment_120790481

I can only say how mine is going, last year there was more ox eye for sure. You can do things to help though, when it goes to see cut and remove from the area the main bullies. But it really is a long process. 4-6 years until it's stable (this is with minimal work) Maybe you could get there quicker.

The best 'advice' if people are looking for any I would have is create the area and make it look intentional. Not really obvious from my photo but we have a border around the wild part. Down one side Lavender and Catmint, and a bed with Spirea and Ceanothus shrubs against the wall (hard to see from pic). What this does is create a structure that when you look at the garden you get the impression this is an active choice (rather than an untidy garden). This has helped with the understanding and even though everything looks the exact same bar a border around the edge with some mulch in it. I'll take some photos in when I cut it later in the year.

@Thargor happy to pay back all the book recommendations over the years!

Bellie1

Thanks lordgoat. Novice question here, when you say to cut back after gone to seed, do you mean deadhead or cut right back to be ground?(thinking of the yarrow here in particular?