Wildflower Meadow Attempt

lordgoat

I cut the entire thing back when most of the flowerheads had turned to seed but before the dried out fully and scattered. This is not possible for all plants so just pick when it looks right and cut then all down to about 4-6 inches and remove the cuttings.

Thargor

Went to the open day down at Wildflowers.ie in Rathbeg today, very interesting, they were way more optimistic about a new meadows chance of success than you would be researching it yourself, the head guy was very big into his Roundup, he says killing everything with that first early in the year then waiting and weeding it for the rest of the year until sowing at the end of September is by far the easiest way to jumpstart a meadow.

Nobody in the crowd wanted to do that though so he says the second best way is to give it as close a buzzcut as possible with your mower then after the last cut in Sept/Oct you should heavily scarify the soil either with chain harrow/scarifier or dethatching rake, stripping it practically bare but still with some grass, then just hand spread the seeds and rake them in with one pass of a spring rake and wait (sowing into dry soil and then having it rain right away is best). Yellow rattle to be activated by a few hours in the freezer and added later before the first frosts.

He ruled out my plan to prepare the seedbed now and weed them bare until September, he said just do it a couple of days before I sow and it will be fine.

So yeah good day out if you're in the area, very interesting talk, he constantly emphasised it will be a multi-year project, lovely spot, one on one consultation and appropriate free seed packs about your site if you bring him pics (printed he wont look at phones) and soil samples, sowing and raking tutorial for anyone who needs it and more than enough free seeds for my project, all you can pick yellow rattle aswell, it was seeding everywhere, just pick up the pods and shake the seeds out into a bag:

SnowyMuckish

Jebus, he’s supposed to be the ‘lead’ and he’s advocating round up…….!

Bar that sounds like an amazing day out, with other great advice 👍😀

Bellie1

Thanks. That tip about the yellow rattle is very useful. Sowed some last year and poor showing so this year will try the fridge trick

lordgoat

That's Sandro right?

Got my seeds from him to start off. What you can instead and it's what I did was cover the entire area with black plastic over summer (after a very hard cut and scarify). Leave it covered all winter and plant early spring as he described.

Might try and get to one of these talks as he's meant to be very entertaining.

I have never got one yellow rattle flower in 3 summers. Never took, it's also seems to have some mystery status as an easy fix for grass... it needs grass to live on, sure it will help keep grass weakened but over time, grass will probably win (in our style of meadow).

SnowyMuckish

Was saying the same about yellow rattle in a post a few weeks ago. Got extra rattle seeds from seedaholic. I think this is our 4th year with the meadow and it’s the first year that I can say that it has established, had just a few plants last year.

Thargor

Ill be planting plenty of yellow rattle seed in the heavily scarified areas, leaving a bit of grass to sow some seeds into and raising plugs in the greenhouse to plant in the grassy areas in Spring, definitely nothing wrong with this stuff anyway its fresh as you can get and he was saying its getting a bit out of control in their fields, clumping together and not letting anything else grow in big patches.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811336#Comment_120811336

he's doing it on a commercial scale, so it doesn't surprise me.

Tefral

I've no idea why the photos are sideways but you can turn your screen 🤣

This is my own one. Different stuff seems to come up and down. All I did last October was hit it with the strimmers and cut it back to the ground. I bought lots of yellow rattle then and planted it.

looksee

Your meadow is very pretty, and no doubt the bees love it. Its an annual flower meadow, not all native, neither cosmos nor California poppy are native. I suggest you remove the California Poppy as it grows very enthusiastically and in good soil will create a dramatic, pretty, but impenetrable mulch of green and flowers that will suffocate everything around it.

Thargor

Project update after a fairly backbreaking day out there:

This was what I started with when I bought this house a few months ago, getting rid of the trees was part of the contract due to years of arguments about them between the previous owners and the neighbours, I had no issue with it as I hate these foreign evergreens:

After tree surgery and a few months of strimming and mowing I was left with this, it looks small in the pics but its a big garden and way too much regular mowing for me which is what led me to the wildflower meadow idea:

Scalped the lawn on the lowest setting yesterday and rented this scarifier from Chadwicks and gave it four laps vertical and horizontal in a line from the washing line down to the trees today, just to have a patch of manicured grass in front in case it doesn't work out, Ill do that patch next year if Im happy with this years result:

I took away 5 wheelbarrows of unbelievably heavy thick thatch and was left with deep score marks all over, added 3 kinds of seed mixes that I got at wildflowers.ie down in Thurles on their open day, shady woodland and hedge mix down the back and edges and meadow mixes in the main body and all over, Ill do a separate Yellow Rattle planting day later in the season closer to the first frosts, theres yellow rattle in the mixes anyway to improve my chances:

After that I raked up any loose stuff then just shook the seeds out all over the way we were shown at the open day, pressed them into the soil with a few passes of the spring rake and lots of walking, did all that in the sun and its been pissing rain since I finished so hopefully ideal sowing conditions, no clue if I used too much seed or too little or whether I distributed it equally or not but anywhere I knelt down to look seemed to be well seeded in the scarifier grooves and the seeds seem to have all disappeared a few hours later after the rain with no sign of birds feasting on them so happy with how it went anyway. Cant wait to see how things turn out now:

Species list:

MM09: Field Scabious, Kidney Vetch, Quaking-Grass, St Johnswort. Musk Mallow, Red Campion, White Campion, Wild Carrot, Yarrow, Yellow Agrimony, Yellow Rattle, Salad Burnet, Birdsfoot Trefoil, Black Meddick, Centaury, Corn Marigold, Corn Poppy, Corn Cockle, Cornflower, Cowslip, Lady's Bedstraw, Lesser Knapweed, Marjoram, Mullein, Ox-eye Daisy, Red Bartsia, Red Clover, Ribwort Plantain, Selfheal

MM10: Birdsfoot Trefoil, Black Meddick, Bush Vetch. Corn Marigold, Corn Poppy, Corncockle, Cowslip, Meadow Buttercup, Field Scabious, Kidney Vetch, Lady's Bedstraw, Lesser Knapweed, Marjoram, Eyebright, Mullein, Ox-eye Daisy, Hawksbit, Red Bartsia, Red Campion, Red Clover, St Johnswort, Wild Carrot, Yarrow, Yellow Rattle, Species in small quantities: White Campion, Feverfew, Cornflower, Scentless Mayweed, Birdsfoot Trefoil, Purple Loosestrife, White Bedstraw, Ragged Robin, Selfheal, Yellow Agrimony

EC04 (shady areas): Birdsfoot trefoil, Black Meddick, Burdock, Bluebell, Corn Marigold, Corn Poppy, Corncockle*, Cornflower*, Cowslip, Devils Bit Scabious, Foxglove, Hedge Garlic Mustard, Hemp Agrimony, Hoary Plantain, Cow-Parsley, Lesser Knapweed, Scented Mayweed, Meadowsweet, Mullein, Ox-eye Daisy, Purple Loosestrife, Primrose, Ragged Robin, Red Campion, Ribwort Plantain, Sorrel, St Johnswort, Teasel, Upright Hedge Parsley, Wild Angelica, Wild Carrot, Wood Avens, Sweet Violet, Dog Violet

D-Lo Brown

Wow well done! Serious work done there

What I've found I really like in my front lawn is a mix of birdsfoot, clover and daisies. Looks lovely even no and the bees absolutely love it

I scalped the edges recently and seeded heavily with clover and top dressed and it's doing well now. Next year I'm going to regularly mow the edges to keep it neat and tidy.

Thargor

Thanks, although after the rain has washed the scarifier muck away a bit and the lawn has had a couple of days of sun/showers to recover Im wondering if its still awfully thick to do this properly. Ah well I still have a large amount of yellow rattle seed to sow so Ill make sure to clear a few decent spots for it to get going.

Anybody know where I could get a bundle like this of native hedgerow plants? Waiting for a reply from the site but are they out of season atm? When would you expect to see them back and when would the best time be to plant them? This would be perfect for my place and would hopefully solve my nettle problems at the edges:

Traditional Irish Native Hedgerow Mix (connectingtonature.ie)

Thargor

Hmmm the grass is coming back faster than I thought, I suppose it will be okay to give it a good mow before Winter now that the seeds have gone in the ground? Or should I just leave it and see what comes do you think?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173616#Comment_121173616

Keep missing it you do not want any the grass to smother any seeds that germinate. Keep it as short as possible all winter and out into the spring. You want light and air down into the butt of the grass.

Do not mulch you must take the clipping off

victor8600

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121150251#Comment_121150251

I recommend https://www.vanderwel.ie/ in Aughrim, Co. Wicklow for bundles of hedging or trees. Bought 100s of plants from them over years, very good quality and prices.

Thargor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173732#Comment_121173732

Done now thanks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173873#Comment_121173873

Thanks, Connecting to nature got back to me after I asked, they're connected to wildflowers.ie and that pack is perfect for my situation, available to order in Mid-Winter apparently:

Hi xxxx,

 

We expect to have the bareroots back in stock by mid-winter.

I cannot give an exact timeframe yet as the lifting and processing of the trees will be weather dependant.

Bareroot trees and hedging are best sown from November to the end of March.

This is when the trees are in their dormant stage and they can be safely lifted and replanted without damaging them.

At all other times, trees should only be planted if they are already potted.

If you wish, I can add your email to our notification system and you will be notified as soon as they are back in stock.

 

Hope this helps.

Thargor

Scalped the lawn again and scarified a good few bare patches into the soil today with the dethatching rake in various spots, seeded it all with a good amount of Yellow Rattle seed including some batches that Id kept in the freezer overnight. Pushed more down into the petrol-powered scarifier grooves that are still visible from last month.

Kept a bit of YR seed back for plug plants in the Spring. Will see what comes now, temp got down to 2 deg C here last night according to the weather station.

Water John

There is a new environmental farm scheme called Acres. Options in it, include both native trees and hedgerows. This will place a big demand on stock this winter. The variety of stock available may also be an issue.

Thargor

Hmmm, first week of March and gave it a quick once over with the mower there, not much sign of any wildflower action out there yet, no sign of any yellow rattle in the seedbeds I specially prepared for them, in fact if I was someone who liked grass lawns/mowing Id be very happy with the putting green finish out there 😐️

Thargor

Well its only April and the weather has been absolutely abysmal here in Limerick, literally raining since Christmas but I think this first attempt has failed, the lawn is basically zero difference from if Id skipped all that work scarifying and dethatching and seeding with the wildflower mixes to if Id just skipped mowing it.

Just grass/daisies/dandelions and the odd actual weed like hairy bittercress and creeping buttercup. Maybe the ridiculous amount of rain washed the seeds out or maybe the grass is just too aggressive?

Ill give it another while but Im going to start planning next years attempt now. I think I might just bite the bullet and spray it all off then seed it again.

Thargor

Any suggestions for anything I can do this year? Is it too late to add more seed?

Earth24

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027834#Comment_122027834

What was the mix of seeds you got last year? Annuals or Periannuals?

Thargor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122055904#Comment_122055904

Listed them in post #72, mostly periannuals very little annuals I think.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120700641#Comment_120700641

Having lots of nettles is a bad sign for your wildflower efforts. Nettles are an indicator of high soil fertility which is the opposite of what you want. Removing the nettles will not be enough prep to yield success you also need to remove the fertile topsoil.

Bill Hook

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122064550#Comment_122064550

Maybe let it do it's thing this year and see what grows? More plants may emerge as the year progresses. Yellow Rattle seedlings are tiny at the moment and are hard enough to spot; I struggle to find them in the middle of the grass, dandelions, daisies, etc.

Shoog

Something to be aware of is the typical rate of recruitment of species within a natural meadow. It is reconned that you will gain approximately one species per decade if nature is left to its own devises. The initial colonizing will bring in a lot more but those will mostly be aggressive perennials that even in a meadow would be considered weeds (think docks and creeping buttercups and couch grass). So unless you actively accelerate the process you can be waiting for a very long time.

One approach is to grow sods of wildflower mix and cut them in. Use the same soil as the lawn you are replacing but sterilize it before growing your sods.

Another approach is to grow plugs in pots and plant them in when they are established, keep doing it year on year.

Also make sure the flower mix you choose matches your soil type. Most wild flower suppliers don't offer specific soil profiles and many source their seed from abroad which is really bad. The only really good supplier of locally sourced seed for specific Irish soil profiles is wildflower.ie

Thargor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122065172#Comment_122065172

Thats the hope, Ill carry on with this for now this year, Ill try something a bit more drastic next year, maybe rent a sod cutter and strip it.

The Continental Op

Why not take off a strip this year then you have one strip thats a year ahead and can seed/grow into the other area.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120811336#Comment_120811336

Roundup is a useful tool. I advocate its use to clear Japanese Knotweed. He's right though a single heavy application of roundup is the easiest way to establish a meadow and if you are ideologically opposed to it be prepared for a hell of a lot more work.
Its all about the right tool for the right job.