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Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That's a bit like the argument for not having car insurance or health insurance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Except your argument is more like buying car insurance without a car.

    Useless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So it seems there is a threat to our national infrastructure. Not so geographically isolated it seems after all. Our infrastructure is intrinsically linked to others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The car is the infrastructure and our commercial interests.

    Jeeez...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Definite backing alright your jets will be here any day now bud! lol

    Will you see if you can google an answer to this question

    "In your plan when you're policing the Russians and they don't comply will you shoot them down? and what do once we have."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Same thing every one else does who has the same problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    0 threat bunch of waffle made up by gobshites.

    But regardless it will be the UK and NATO that will be dealing with it. They wont give a **** what the IDF has to say and the IDF will be made take a back seat not asked same way the US used Shannon when they felt like it.

    So your ok bud we've been safe for decades 0 incidents of note, no need for a sudden influx of Irish fighter jets lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Will you and the lads be having a little gathering to celebrate your 5th consecutive year on the same thread?

    The hilarious thing is 5 years ago you were expecting these jets and here we are not a jet in sight lmao glorious!

    They are definitely on the way tho lads keep the faith just another 5 years to go! lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Seems to trying prove how little they know about the subject...or history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Military procurement often takes years. You're laughing at something which is perfectly normal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Oh yeah you did mention some very credible ones and recent too... what was it 1941/1942 there was ships being sunk of the coast and the other one was they accidently bombed Dublin followed by an apology. Definitely good reasons to buy jets in 2023...

    I know now you think that was a real "gotcha" moment but i am being kind by refraining from ripping the stupidity of that post apart.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Oh yeah hows that going? any timeline? what are they purchasing? Anything at all really? lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You're argument we are so remote as be unreachable. All obviously wrong. We've have incidents in recent years including this year. So your dates are wrong also.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In addition the Russians Naval Assets sailed post Ireland to get to Ukraine. Making a joke of any assertion that we are unreachable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    We are of 0 strategic interest to anyone, on top of that we are virtually impossible to invade. and whether we like it or not we fall under the umbrella of protection of the RAF which has its **** together. We have fantastic relations with both the US and UK and are in the EU. It doesn't get much safer than that.

    If they sent that much help to the Ukraine imagine what the response would be to a Russian attack or invasion of Ireland.

    Us spending billions on jets and infrastructure to go with them is an utter waste of money driven by pure ego backed by strawman arguments and over exaggerated threats.

    The money could even be spent better within the current military ffs.

    But do elaborate on these so called incidents that warrant such a drastic response.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    ..and your back to Russians and WW3 for some reason as if that the only reason to police your airspace.

    Anyway you have it backwards. Its not Ireland taking an interest in Russia. Its Russia taking an interest in Ireland.

    Why you'd have to ask them. Russia doing stupid illogical things, isn't without precedent. If you knew your history...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Your the only one mentioning ww3 bud

    I'm stating the fact that we are between the us and UK and for decades have had no need for jets and as you said yourself the Russians have been at this since the cold war.

    Checkmate bud your strawmans for jets are collapsing at every hurdle.

    Ps Ireland can't stop Russia in any case so your jets are futile in the first place.

    So if your buying em to stop the Russians and they won't stop the Russians what's the point of buying them? Lol


    Not hard to grasp.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Not entirely how else you can interpret the air battle youve described with the "Russians".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 93 ✭✭RavenP


    @delusiondestroyer An interesting opinion and worth discussing

    You present several options

    Option 1 Ireland defends itself against a potential agrgessor (you name Russia) and comes off much worse in a bun fight

    Option 2 Ireland does nothing

    Option 3 Ireland cosies up to the RAF

    Your premise in Option 1 is that Ireland cannot defend itself against any likely aggressor. However, if, your example, Russia. was attacking Ireland there are a few things to note. A. It is highly unlikely to attack Ireland unless part of a much wider conflict. In such a scenario it will only have a fraction of its air power to throw at Ireland. B. Only Russia’s relatively small fleet of long range bombers can approach Ireland with malicious intent, no Russian fighter has near the range to get to, and operate over Ireland. They can hurt Ireland, yes, but they could actually be tackled with a fairly modest fighter force when working at such long range without escorts. Let's say the Russians send twenty Bear and Black Swan bombers every day to attack Irish targets. Any, even modest, airforce such as Ireland could field, would get a couple of those every day, and soon deplete the VVS, with the liklihood of few losses on our side.So your suggestion that Ireland cannot realisticly defend itself from, say, Russia, in the air is not really correct.

    Option 2 is the ostrich in the sand approach. It works, until it doesn’t. Governments should make assessment of threat and protect their citizens. I am nearly 70 years of age and I have never had my house burn down but I still pay home insurance.

    Option 3 is not that easy a fix. You may not be aware of this, but the RAF has, in total, only about 125 combat aircraft, to cover everything. In a major war they have not enough aircraft to cover Ireland. They have in the past actually asked Ireland for assistance with maritime patrol. Basically the problem is our allies (that I what they are, we are not, and have never since 1945, really entirely neutral) expect us to do more. Sure they will base fighters in Ireland, but they will want us to contribute to western defence in a different way, like say building ourself a fleet of anti-submarine frigates. Having a decent fighter force, and an upgraded navy, actually makes us more neutral.

    Part of the reason why Sinn Fein have now started to jump on the bandwagon of a fighter force for Ireland is that it is dawning on them that in a multipolar world the only form of actual neutrality is armed neutrality and Ireland is just about big enough and rich enough to do that credibly, although it probably means in real terms tripling our defence spending. Alas the days of neglecting our security are probably over.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,751 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    An armed neutrality is what is best for us now. Jets may not stop any invader but they would be a trip wire before a landing. Also useful in policing our sea and airspace in peacetime. Anyway if we were attacked by either the UK or Russia we would have to show a willingness to defend ourselves first before anyone would consider aid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,894 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    mentions that the procurement for aircraft is ongoing alongside ships and radar.

    seems the noise is finally getting louder on this front and I hope the meek media we have in this country for once pushes this more and more



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Think the "procurement of aircraft" is the CASA's which have taken over from the PC12s as the go to excuse/soundbite when asked. Given at best all they can say is a couple of trips have been made to see other Radar sites, I have little faith that they have actually any intention of anything more than that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    That's because there is no real need for them, they are under no pressure to spend billions on jets and modernizing the air corp infact it would be detrimental to the gov go do that.

    Imagine it... in the midst of a house crisis and the gov announces a massive outlay for fighter jets lol.

    But hey lads dream on it costs nothing lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    LOL Govt has spent billions on many things (including the military) other than housing over the last 20yrs. It not like its a priority for them either. Seems to have no effect on them being re-elected time and time again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    They aren't going to shell out to overhaul the air corp simply wont happen your going to be old and grey on this thread before you see Irish f-16's or gripens or what ever else ye seem to think we desperately need hit the tarmac.

    And it all boils down to the same thing we don't need and can do just fine without them so there is no urgency to get them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭purplepanda


    Another tankie who knows far more than those in Irelands military, the overseas military who have studied & advised Irelands defence situation for decades & other worldwide defence experts.

    Where do these tankies get their expertise from, perhaps they've studied or even written a report of their own, or just follow the usual PBF Wallace / Daly crusties who support Putin.

    Put 'em on ignore, they wish the abolition of any Irish Defence capability, I call them traitors.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,955 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    Won't fund the aircorps?

    This is following Government approval for a move over a six-year period to a level of Defence Forces’ capability equivalent to ‘Level of Ambition 2’ (LOA2), as set out in the capability framework devised by the Commission on Defence Forces, which will entail funding increases to reach a Defence budget of approximately €1.5 billion (at January 2022 prices) by 2028 through the annual Estimates.


    This level of capital funding will allow the Defence Organisation to undertake a programme of sustained equipment replacement and infrastructural development across the Army, Air Corps and Naval Service as identified and prioritised in the Defence White Paper and the Report of the Commission, while building on the significant investment programme over recent years.




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