Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

newcavanman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120032319#Comment_120032319

Ditch the PC9Ms and don't bother with the 21s. We could do a deal with someone else to use their training system. Somewhere like Portugal or Spain for example. You're bang on about moving fixed wing to Shannon, but try canvassing people in Baldonnel about that and you will quickly be shot down. Remember the last time someone tried to move state employees to somewhere outside Dublin ?

Sgt. Bilko 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120036574#Comment_120036574

Qatar paid 6.3 bln for 24 Rafales

Egypt paid 4.5bln for 30 Rafales (purchase is currently under a fraud investigation)

India paid 7.8 bln for 36 Rafales

The Serbian airforce are said to have order 12 but the amount is undisclosed.

Strange pricing but i would image we tick all the discount boxes in their purchase order.

roadmaster

The French must have very good salesmen as the Rafale is becoming very good option on the export market from india to serbia

Sgt. Bilko 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120036772#Comment_120036772

Forgot to mention the biggest which is the UAE who ordered 80 at price tag of 19bln.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120036755#Comment_120036755

New or 2nd Hand?

roadmaster

If the state did aquire fast jets for Air Policing i presume it would be operated like 112? with crews rotating between Casement and one of the west coast airports

newcavanman

TBH i cant see any reason NOT to have most of the IAC operating on the West coast. Other than the Helos exercising and training with the army they have no real purpose on the east coast . Maritime recce and air defense would have almost all their area of operations on the west coast and training would have easier access to uncongested air space. Not forgetting the benefits to the local economy of the equivilance of a reasonable size government department being decentralized, and the increased usage generated for Shannon

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120036154#Comment_120036154

The $3billion as I understand it is the entire life cycle cost for planes, weapons, training and support.

New build Rafale are in the $120 million ballpark but let's say $1.5bln for the airframes and $1.65bln for training, equipment, weapons and support.

I agree it's the same price as F35 but? The US won't sell F35s into South America for a long time yet.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037612#Comment_120037612

Pretty much this, not too mention for the AC personnel a hell of a drop in cost of living/commuting being out in Limerick/Shannon compared to Dublin. It might have to be done over a period but certainly outside of "we do it this way as this is the way we've always done it" I don't get why basing on the West Coast is a no go?

Larbre34

I guess not. But at the same time, I'm surprised the US let the sale go to Europe.

Lets face it, for Colombia's needs, the F-16 Block 70/72 would have been more than adequate, unless they're planning to go to war with Brazil or something.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037715#Comment_120037715

The Brazil as "enemy" hypothesis is honestly likely the prime reason the Gripen E has been excluded from their consideration. AFAICR the SAAB deal with Brazil included the marketing and manufacturing rights for S.A once Brazil made a minimum purchase.

Columbia may take the view that buying Gripen E is strengthening a regional rival economy.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037715#Comment_120037715

Could also be time related? Some of the Eastern European orders have been delayed for the F16 already, maybe that factored into things? Also I wonder perhaps would the US be less willing to give the financial package that France might offer, or alternatively might South America politics make such a deal less attractive? Meanwhile of course Argentina continues to get nowhere with any purchase from anyone.

Sgt. Bilko 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037234#Comment_120037234

Qatar bought I don’t think they are leasing there is nothing available that I can see to check.

Egypt bought them and are making additions to their current purchase there’s something about the arrange that has Dassault and the Egyptians under investigation.

India bought all except for 4 Rafales M(carrrier based) which they are leasing.

The Serbian airforce are buying them nothing online stating otherwise.

Emirates are buying them outright

Larbre34

I suspect any EU/NATO sales to Serbia will be cancelled within the week.

Another bunch of bargain-basement slavic fascists giving it the Billy-big-balls, that need their toes stamping on.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037814#Comment_120037814

Germany remilitarising, Italy going all RW, Turkey and Greece sabre-rattling,the Balkans being all Balkany with Serbia dicking around and Russia eyeing expansion and making a balls of it...

All whilst global economy circles a drain fuelled by easy credit.

One might almost be forgiven for thinking it was the 1920s rather than the 2020s

Serbia are acting the bollox and the only way it gains them anything other than cheap fuel? Is a Russian hegemony arising again in Central Europe IMO.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120036746#Comment_120036746

Decentralisation, in the early 90s. A huge success, nationally.

I'm sure the majority of junior ranks in the Air Corps would find the prospect of getting a Mortgage is Limerick or Clare far easier than trying to get the same within commuting distance of Bal. Problem last time was telling everyone in Gormo, (who by now had roots in Louth/Meath & its environs) that now they had to up sticks and move to Kildare or West Dublin. Or Else.

Larbre34

No, because its got feet of clay. Russia and their acolytes are in a situation of great desperation.

Germany militarising is only a positive for those of us that live under the umbrella of the western alliance, as themselves and Poland are the bulwark of NATO in the east.

There is a lot of old guff being talked by Lavrov and Medvedev and Vučić and Lukashenko, but really they are all fart and no poo.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037993#Comment_120037993

I know the feeling. Too much alcohol free beer & mince pies over chrimbo...

roadmaster

If the Air Corps moved to Shannon as a sweater the personal should be offered the government home loans as part of the deal for them to re settle

Even widen it out to the whole defence forces if you agree to serve for 10 years

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038287#Comment_120038287

The DoD isn't a housing agency. What are government home loans?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038398#Comment_120038398

Maybe not but to offset low wages they need to offer good benfits.

There are various versions of the home loans being run by councils.

One such version is if you cant get a mortage from a bank the government via the councils will organise a mortage for you @ around 2% fixed for 25 years

Larbre34

State backed mortgages from County Councils or other approved agencies. They've been around for a hundred years.

Not a bad idea to give DF personnel special access to them, failing the widespread re-introduction of base housing. They could help to both attract and tie talent to the DF.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038549#Comment_120038549

Gone a good few years now.

Gary kk

Poland gives DF personal interest free loans/mortgages. Well according to the Polish men I worked with.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120039501#Comment_120039501

http://localauthorityhomeloan.ie/

Relaunched a year ago.

newcavanman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037986#Comment_120037986

You will note, I never said it was a success. It was a good idea but very badly handled. I believe that part of the quid pro quo, of having a public sector job, where it is practically impossible to be sacked or made redundant, is that the government can redeploy you to wherever is required,, within reason. I have many friends in the RAF and it part of their basic terms and conditions. For example, many personnel opted to stay on the E3 awacs, even tho it had regular foreign deployments as they were settled with family etc at Waddington. They assumed the E7 Wedge tails would also be based there. Now the E7s are going to Lossie. Much cheaper housing etc, but 500 miles north. They were given a choice, move or give up your job. That's how most militaries around the world operate

bear1

Not fighter jet related but today the gardai will get a new helicopter which will also support the defence forces and also a brand new fixed wing aircraft, not sure what sort of plane they are thinking of though.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120061133#Comment_120061133

Its in two other threads on this forum.

banie01

India has reportedly decided on the Rafale-M for their new Carrier and to replace Mig-29k in current service. Boeing had offered huge offseting as part of their pitch but it seems India are looking for both performance and intraoperability/logistics rationalisation

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/french-rafale-m-edges-out-american-f-a-18-in-indian-navy-fighter-contest-101670527011363.html

It will give a high degree of commonality with the existing Indian AF Rafales and is also probably a leg up for Dassault in the Medium fighter tender.

https://www.thedefensepost.com/2022/06/01/india-multi-role-fighter-program/

That seems to have been cut again from 112 airframes down to 57. Interesting offset possibility here tho. Is that Safran are offering full transfer of technology of the M88 engine and also working with Indian industry on next gen engines.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/french-safran-to-set-up-engine-mro-in-india-offers-to-partner-amca-project-101656903652304.html

Dassault are sitting pretty for a while with their order book even if the Columbians have nixed their tender process.

More and more countries are buying new airframes and fully overhauling old ones. Less and less production capacity available for whatever the Dept here eventually decide to buy.

banie01

Apropos of nothing other than many folk here and in the broader defence and aviation communities being fairly certain that if/when Ireland makes the transition to fast jets that the Gripen should be where we lay our money down.

This is a very interesting article and makes clear the abilities of the Gripen versus peer adversaries. Highly capable airframe with capabilities that are tailored to austere operation and the data-link seems to really be a game changer.

Imagine those capabilities in the hands of Ukrainian Air force!?! The Gripen was originally built to be a Sukhoi Slayer.

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-saab-gripen-is-able-to-dogfight-and-win-against-almost-any-dissimilar-aircraft-former-swedish-air-force-flight-engineer-explains-how/amp/