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Would you support a new Rural Political Party

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why isn’t there adequate taxation on jet fuel? That’s the real question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    The subsidies should be increased but the price is farmers must go organic, make us a high margin food exporter



  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭Jack98


    Areas with a lot of dairy production would just see big dairy farms Hoover up all the land currently in beef, sheep and tillage production in turn leading to industrial scale dairy farming. This would in turn lead to greater pollution as land that wasn’t being farmed intensively before would now be. Without subsidies you could basically draw an X through a good percentage of west of Ireland farms due to them being unviable. This would lead to desertification of poorer land and an even further brain drain on rural areas. But of course this is what the greens and co would have a wet dream over deserted land and push everyone towards urban areas. I’m sure you’d have no issue with this also as you clearly are so far removed from the reality of rural life and also maintain people should be shoved towards urban areas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,961 ✭✭✭893bet


    If ye haven’t realised there is lads here with hidden (or not so hidden agendas) goading and trolling. Pretending to be genuine and claiming “we are only asking farmers what they will do to reduce”. It’s a akin to asking a taxi driver what the transport approach will be.


    There are no targets on an individual farm like that. Government policy will push the reduction as they see fit and is already doing so (nitrates banding, organic payments incentives, LESS incentives, liming schemes, lots of carrot approaches infairness). In the same way policy will push transport reductions (carbon tax on oil, incentives for EV etc.).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    No need for paranoia, I don’t vote green, nothing I say will make you believe it however

    Post edited by tesla_newbie on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,961 ✭✭✭893bet




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Organic food production is largely a dead end. The market isn't there and I wouldn't be surprised if it is a market going backwards.


    High margin it definitely is not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,618 ✭✭✭White Clover


    Fierce trolling by you since the beginning of the thread. Ignorance too.

    Do you realise that every other sector of the economy is subsidised too to some degree? Remember if all the IDA grants didn’t happen, there would be no high paying pharmaceutical or Tech jobs. Lots of the people that are trying to dictate to others what they should do would have only one problem then.

    There is a wise saying “A man with a full belly has many problems and a man with an empty belly has only one problem”

    Remember that you need farmers three times per day every day of your life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭Jack98


    They are EU subsidies to pay to maintain food security in EUROPE where guess what we ship a lot of produce to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭Jack98


    Beggars belief really, is it trolling or is this the scale of sheer ignorance some urban dwellers have for what goes on in rural Ireland and their magical silver bullet remedies to the problems rural residents encounter. To suggest a bus service a few posts back as a viable method of transport for the majority of the rural population is just completely farcical. Cloud cuckoo land I believe the poster to be living in lol



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,618 ✭✭✭White Clover


    Either that or a paid shill. Propaganda is in vogue with these bad actors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    You can use carrot , farmers who go organic will get much higher subsidies, you have to remember that this thing is political, Irish farmers going organic won’t make a blind bit of difference if China doesn’t stop building coal plants etc but the green agenda is the EU is not going be stopped by Michael Fitzmaurice

    like was said in Succession the other night


    “ you can’t win against the money “



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,011 ✭✭✭alps


    You keep droning on with the same mantra, but listen to nothing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    Which goes to illustrate one thing and it was the original premise of this thread. Rural people especially farmers need a party to give voice to their views .

    If what is written , by some on here, is indicative of what the Greens think then may God help us all .



  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭Jack98


    If there is a new party to be founded to represent rural Ireland it will require some intellectual and powerful speakers who can get their points across in an articulate and respectful way.

    While I’m sure most rural residents may agree with the rhetoric of a lot of what the likes of fitzMaurice says at times he has a tendency to fly off the handle and come out with some very anti environmental statements.

    In order for a new party to succeed you would need play away with environmentalists in order to secure a transition in farming for example that would be gradual and agreeable with farmers (no one is saying farmers want to do nothing).

    A huge proportion of rural dwellers are far more educated than most urban dwellers so it is time to tap into this cohort who have experience of rural living and challenges to form something to represent rural Ireland and ensure it prospers instead of the current downward trajectory it finds itself on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,159 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    A huge proportion of rural dwellers are far more educated than most urban dwellers 





  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,757 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Not in Europe anyway, the amount of 'bio' certified meat, fruit and veg available in the supermarkets has increased massively over the last decade. There was a time when you had to go to specialised organic shops to get anyway, nowadays every supermarket will have it's own line of products and the range gets wider every year from what I can see.

    The price has however gone down a lot too, so I doubt if it's high margin alright



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Ag subs are an investment same as fdi ones.

    Apart from it providing raw materials and food at or below cost of production I would hazard a guess it is 99% plus spent in Ireland and supports the wider rural economy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    1.Zero as its a waste of time and effort which could cripple one of our few indigenous industries for a generation or more.


    2.I would imagine the government of the day would realise its an idea best served by giving it lip service and a public position of mea cupla and give us more time and money and we go again.

    That's this farmers opinion anyways.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Organics is a joke only made possible by massive subs.Its unable to be a viable option without those for 99% of farms

    You end up with a low production system selling at conventional prices into a market yhat really doesn't exist apart from at the margins.

    The slighest oversupply as will happen with the new organics scheme will see the price come in line with conventional market so the worst of both worlds for the farmer



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  • Registered Users Posts: 975 ✭✭✭harmless


    I actually predict a more open and worth while debate on what such a party could contribute to the nation. Starting somewhere around post 4,000



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,778 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    If you’re not getting the simplistic, black n’ white answers you want, then maybe you’re asking the wrong questions. If you’re asking the wrong questions, then maybe you don’t understand the situation enough. If you don’t understand the situation enough, then maybe this is all just an academic debate to you.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Same as - most of them have alot of FFG DNA and are just interested in parish pump stuff



  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    1. How can there be a commitment to a target when nobody knows how that target if it is ever to be reached, would impact at individual farm level and when nobody knows how that change would impact on individual farm viability , and on both food supply and price .
    2. Government need to answer Q 1 before it moves on to Q2


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Thats why the current CAP is not fit for purpose and needs to 100% break the link from producing loss making bulk agri commodities. This is likely to happen anyway cos the likes of Germany and other large bill payers has said the current model is affordable as the EU continues to Expand East



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    Most conventional margins are struggling too be it sheep, pork, poultry etc. and the vast majority of the current CAP is subsidizing that rather than organics etc. Thats why CAP needs serious reform to support sustaineable production instead of over production of basic agri commodities that simply benefits the middle men.



  • Registered Users Posts: 573 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    The commodities are loss making only to the primary producer. The primary producer hasn’t been paid sufficiently for them since subsidies were introduced . Agricultural subsidies will never be removed as consumers would then have to pay the cost of production plus a margin . And even the thickest Green / Extinction Rebel would stomach that .



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,719 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    The CAP has been moving away from "Production Subs" since the McSharry reforms 30 years ago - this process will speed up dramatically as indicated by the main CAP funders post 2028, cos the likes of Ukraine joining would double the current 46 billion euro bill overnight. They are grappling with the same bloated structures in the US where 40% of corn production is effectively being burnt via the biofuel scam to put a floor under agri prices for US farmers. Just yesterday the EU Agri comm announced another 200 million euro package to protect grain farmers in the likes of Poland from markets being flooded by Ukrainian Grain. The simple fact is the costs of the current system are not adding up and as i pointed out in an earlier post, the vast majority of food price inflation in the last 2 years is down to logistics not production. In any case I do find it strange that many farmers like yourself seem to be happy to be whipping boys for everyone else in terms of margins, its like some kind of odd stockholm syndrome🤨



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    But turning to organics just means more subs as its actually even more unsustainable than conventional agriculture without supports at current prices.What you would have then is an ag. sector drawing more subs for less bulk production as whats to differentiate if everyone is organic ?

    Organic food is a marketing idea and has no extra health benefits only it sounds nice when written on a label.


    The present CAP and even the previous one have no link to production whatsoever.In fact any scheme etc is automatically ruled out if its in any way linked to production.All suckler/sheep/enviro schemes are on a per hectare basis ,not on an animal number basis.

    CAP was designed to secure food production for Europe in Europe and is probably the real success story of the EEC/EU.For a tiny amount per head European consumers have a steady,secure and guaranteed supply of food produced to the highest standards possible.At the end of the day what could be more important ?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Do you really think if we went organic or the CAP was changed to some sort of green machine farmers would be better off?Not a hope in my opinion.


    Said it a long time ago on here.What I do is sit down and look at whats available and focus on making the most of it taking into account my own personal circumstances (land area/quality,stock etc etc).Who gives two sh1tes once its making a return ?

    No point in worrying about global warming when you can't afford the auld sliced pan and pound of rashers.

    The only red line for me personally is trees as in my opinion once you plant land its ruined for generations.Our forefathers didn't spend lifetimes clearing,draining and improving land for the craic.



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