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Would you support a new Rural Political Party

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭fits


    How much of Ireland’s milk is ending up in baby formula?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,712 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    That's not necessarily a bad thing for many parts of the world that we export to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,066 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Nobody is expecting most journey's to not still be by car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,507 ✭✭✭✭fits


    It is a bad thing more often than not where financial resources are limited and there may not be access to clean water. Even in rich countries it’s not optimal for children’s health to move away from breastfeeding. But sure it’s a massive elephant in the room.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Who do you think you are??? And don't say a "concerned citizen". We're all concerned citizens.

    Here are a few ideas to get more informed about what you're pontificating on and the world in general:

    1. Contact the Farm Relief Services (https://frsfarmreliefservices.ie/contact-us/) and they'll organise a few week's work for you on the farm of your choice.
    2. Read something by Nasim Taleb ('Skin in the Game' is a personal favourite: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36064445-skin-in-the-game).
    3. Go to a mart and put your questions to people you meet there.
    4. Organise a community meeting wherever you live. Invite everyone you know and put up flyers in the local shops. Organise teas/coffees for attendees and ask them what their priorities are with respect to food, energy, climate change, etc.
    5. Collect litter on a Saturday morning and encourage others to do the same.
    6. Volunteer in an old folks home: spend an hour talking to a few residents.

    Then, come back on here and tell us all what to do again.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



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  • Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭farmertipp


    the reason sfp was introduced was so a cheap food policy could be pursued. it was introduced as compensation for that . so don't flatter yourself thinking you are paying to support farmers. you would be paying more if it wasn't the case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 676 ✭✭✭farmertipp


    tr



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    No business is going to reduce/ close in an altruistic fashion at cost to them to save the planet.

    If the government want farms to reduce/ close they need to incentivise it. The organics scheme is an example that works.

    At the end of the day I will do what makes most sense for me. If it makes sense for me to reduce I will, if it doesn't I won't.

    The same applies to everyone else, for example people will switch to an electric car if it makes sense for them, if it doesn't they won't. Most are not going to switch just to save the planet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭minerleague


    If a new party is based on current independants then I wouldn't be a supporter. Most of them don't seem to work well in a party structure and want to be free to do and say their own thing. Most of them ( and people who vote for them ) are hoping for a hung dail so they can get a special deal while remaining outside of criticism of being in Gov ( running with fox and hunting with hounds )

    Also for a party to last long term it should be built from ground up rather than running candidates in a general election as its first step ( top down )



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    I like Fitzmaurice, he’s genuine but he’s too much of a reactionary, allow me ask a sincere question if I may ?

    what’s to stop Irish farming transforming to organic?, the Greens can’t complain about farmers expecting increased supports in order to facilitate such a radical shift

    my point is, instead of complaining about environmental regulations, why not call the environmentalists bluff and take advantage of the green revolution?

    quantity hasn’t served Irish farmers well, only the processors, produce quality



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,478 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    This is why IMO a full-fledged political party won't emerge from the current conversations. But I still think there may be a looser alliance of independents competing in the next election. Fitzmaurice is probably looking at the formation of the current government and thinking "If some 10-12 of us independents had our act together and had been ready to negotiate as a group with FF and FG we might have been able to seal a deal and keep the Greens out." And there's a fair chance a similar scenario will arise after the next election. But there isn't really time for a group of indies to hash out a common front among themselves from scratch before sitting down as a group to negotiate government formation with FF/FG/whoever. So that's what I think is the real purpose of the current proposals, to have some coordination among independents ready to go among independents so they'll be ready to talk about doing a deal as a group after the next election.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Take a look in the supermarket. Maybe 1% of the shelf space is for organic.

    People say they value food etc but then buy the cheapest they can.

    The green revolution may need to focus on energy generation on farms.



  • Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    While I agree that producing volume hasn’t served farmers well and there is merit in organic , the reality is that organic is a niche . In beef the organic sector produces c. 3 k tonnes out of 550k tonnes of overall production .

    Increase the amount produced organically by all means but it will never meet the demands of a growing world population.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    There is no shortage of food and Irish farmers aren’t interested in selling to people too poor to pay for food , I’m saying as we produce so much of a low margin product, why not produce a specialised food product? , farmers will need large supports to shift however



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Who would buy all that organic produce? Upwards of 60-70% of Irish organic beef is sold thru conventional markets.

    And from what I can gather, farmers have little issue with environmental regulations. But there is push back against the lecturing from all-and-sundry about how we're apparently eco terrorists.

    The problem is partly the message as any new regulations mean uncertainty, possible loss to income, and extra paperwork. But the messenger is also a major issue - whether that's Eamon Ryan, the Extinction Rebellion crew on Twitter, or some posters on this thread. I'll be nice and say they are well-intentioned but their do-as-i-say approach only creates more division and makes things infinitely worse.

    Which brings us back to politics: a rural political party might get a few seats but I'd suggest more regular communication with the current TDs and councillors would serve rural dwellers and those in rural towns and villages just as well. Spend your energy hammering home your message to them (whatever that message might be) rather than spending it on yet another political entity whose elected reps would soon be absorbed and disappear into the existing structure.

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,066 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Jeysus this is childish.

    Farmers don't have a problem with environmental regulations they just don't like the people promoting them.

    Either the first bit is a lie or the second bit is true and these farmers are pathetic.

    Is "stop Extinction Rebellion from being big meanies on Twitter" going to be a manifesto pledge for this new party ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    When nobody goes to bed hungry you can come back with your “ how much is too much “ . Whatever it means ?

    Irish farmers and those working in the food industry in this country work long hard days and nights to produce what they do. Most don’t have time for nebulous nonsense



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    It would be a transition that takes time and perhaps the shelf prices would need to remain as is but farmers would need to be provided with special supports

    I’m saying call the greens bluff by going organic but challenge them to provide the necessary supports if they really believe in it , beat them at their own game



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Do you mean people in the third world etc going to bed hungry?, farmers here aren’t interested in those people as customers as they have no money or certainly not the price of what would give a return to Irish beef producers , our markets should be people in the west



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭alps


    I can't answer you exactly, but they will be all dairy farms.

    That's what you will do if younremove the subsiidies....turn every farm into a dairy farm..

    And without the subsidy, you'll have no stick to beat them with either.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭alps


    We produce quality, that's why our product sells so well abroad.

    The most difficult market to sell our product in is at home.

    Any of our farmers producing product for the home market have either gone broke, are goi g broke or have changed enterprises.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭alps




  • Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    With the way the CAP is structured, nobody eating beef or dairy is paying Irish farmers sufficiently for it . Agricultural subsidisation produces massive quantities of wholesome food at a price that is affordable to the masses . That is the way it has to stay.

    If we stopped production in the morning the deficit would have to come from somewhere else - probably outside of Europe . Given what the volume we produce it would be difficult to replace us

    I genuinely think those advocating for example for a reduction in the number of ruminants grasp this point . A growing world population has to be fed .



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭alps


    The same way as well his the transport target with the same amount of cars, or our energy target burning the same amountbof electricity....innovation and science and management.

    Gonna be awful dissapointment to so many if some of the current trials prove the solution..



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    I was replying to the comment about “ people going to bed hungry “

    those people can’t afford to pay what would provide Irish farmers with a margin so pointing to “ people still hungry “ is a pointless argument



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Yes but while the product is excellent, the current system has run into the new environmental political reality



  • Registered Users Posts: 576 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    If people being hungry is a pointless argument, I will rest my case

    I’m out



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    Farmers in Ireland produce food to make a return , not out of altruism towards the hungry in other parts of the world so it’s reasonable to point out that saying “ we shouldn’t reduce output as there are people going to bed hungry “ is a flawed argument

    those hungry folks can never afford Irish food prices



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭older by the day


    No but if Europe don't produce enough of its own. Then it will be taking it out of the mouths of the hungry people. Go away and grow your window boxes. The price war on dairy products is what is worrying most on here this morning. Rather than trying to teach your type



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    I eat meat three times per day and wouldn’t vote green in a fit , I’m simply making suggestions about how Irish farmers might pivot towards something that would shut the greens up



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