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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Not sure where you are getting your information from.

    Your links are years out of date. You included a link from 2021 which has been superseded by the below from 2022.

    The bivalent booster might still be under emergency or conditional use, but the original vaccines are not.



    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Well that's ironic. It's from the link you posted today



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The link I posted was in reference to the false claim about it being an experimental vaccine. That was debunked by the 2021 article and such claims are obviously still false now.

    "And the vaccines are not 'experimental' full stop."

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Kilkenny Press questioning the vaccine's role in the increase in deaths in Kilkenny and many other counties.


    As stated previously there is a certain amount of subjectivity in the Sudden Death figures but the criteria are applied consistently from year to year to give valid data for comparison purposes.
    
     “Sudden Deaths are self-declared in death notices or are evident from condolences, age of victim etc. Any obvious accidents, suicides or cancer deaths are omitted,” Patrick told Kilkenny Press.
    
    “While 30% variation in such circumstances might be dismissible, a 100% increase demands questions regardless of where you think the answers lie.
    
    These figures would suggest that the massive increase in sudden deaths didn’t kick in until 2022 when over 90% of our adult population had been vaxxed as per graph.
    

    Serious questions that need serious answers, there's more to this than delayed healthcare of treatable conditions.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    US life insurance analyst describes the increased death rates amongst the vaccinated, it is worrying to say the least!


    Life insurance companies are going to need to re-evaluate their premiums in the light of data like this, maybe the vaxxed will have to pay increased premiums in the future.

     ‘The One Chart That Tells the Entire Story’: Analysis Shows 26% Worse Mortality Among the Vaccinated 
    And “the people who are under the age of 50 who took the vaccine now have a 49% higher mortality rate,” stated top insurance analyst Josh Stirling.
     "And if you were to take these numbers and just apply them to the United States, that ends up being something like 600,000 excess deaths per year in the United States
     from this higher vaccine-induced mortality.”
    


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Yes there's covid, long covid, a growing and aging population.

    The stats in the linked article seem highly dubious. Such as why only 9 months are picked and when any supposed increase actually started happening. It seems like there was a jump from July 2020 to March 2021 before vaccines were rolled out.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,415 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Its not the Kilkenny Press its someone with a clear agenda, Patrick Walsh is his name.

    He appears to be a bit of a loon who trawls through RIP.ie.

    I urge readers to use these figures to torment your local councillor, TD, clergyman, Garda, radio station and local newspaper. FFS

    He also seems to be one of those "the communists are coming for your house" idiots.

    https://twitter.com/chartwellking

    Anyway, he claims 180 excess deaths. How many of those people got the vax? Do we know? Does he care?

    And whats the conspiracy?

    Nothing to do with evertyone being locked up in cotton wool at home and then suddenly out and about?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    No need to worry. Every time we've looked in detail at similar posts on the thread that were described as worrying, they either showed no risk from vaccines or lower risk or what people should actually have been worrying about was Covid itself.

    Let me guess, in comparing vaccination versus unvaccinated he has failed to control for some major risk factor, either age or pre-conditions.

    Similar previous analysis from the same guy debunked here:

    “The more doses on average you have in a region within the United States, the bigger increase in mortality that region has had in 2022 when compared to 2021”

    In summary, Stirling’s analysis of mortality data contains several biases, such as the comparison of demographically and economically different areas and the lack of information on the vaccination status of individuals. Furthermore, only relying on relative metrics such as the variation of mortality rates can be misleading as it doesn’t include information about the actual death toll of each area. Correlating the vaccine coverage of states with their mortality rate actually shows that high vaccination coverage isn’t associated with increased mortality.

    https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/us-mortality-rate-analysis-josh-stirling-misleading-current-data-dont-show-covid-19-vaccines-increased-mortality/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Excess deaths graph when compared to 2016-2019.

    Why is Ireland the highest in Europe! 25% higher. Alarming stuff



    Edit. 2nd highest after Iceland. I apologize



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Because if you compare Ireland's population demographic changes between then and now, we have had an increase in population and in older demographic who are the ones most likely to account for such statistics.

    Any excess mortality figures that aren't age adjusted are unreliable for comparisons across years.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Okkaaay. Then and now? It's 2016-2019

    And what about comparisons across countries. Why is Ireland second highest?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Because proportionally we've had an increase in population and movement into older demographics compared to other countries?

    And that could magnify issues relating to health service waiting lists, delays etc

    And remember somebody has to be #1, #2, #3 in the list...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Seems that long covid is going out of fashion. According to latest study it seems it has very little if anything to do with covid.

    So, is it a conspiracy or just medical disinformation when you mention long covid?





  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Did you know that Ireland has the 3rd lowest age population in Europe?

    Immigration was almost non existent in 2020 and low in 2021.

    I refuse to believe that loads of old people moved here in the last few years and loads of them died a few months later!

    Maybe we are 2nd because our healthcare system is so shite.

    The money thrown at the Irish healthcare system is a bit like the Bermuda triangle. It just disappears, nobody can explain where it's gone



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,743 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The Kilkenny press isn't asking, it's that individual. If you look at his post history there are more. Almost like there's a systematic pattern to it..



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,743 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    "Yes but his stories are critical of vaccines and so am I therefore I posted it without a second thought"



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The disinformation I see on the thread comes from those peddling anti vax conspiracies discredited time and time again from sources continually wrong and debunked.

    There were stats posted on the thread already showing that a covid infection in 2020 was associated with an increased risk of mortality into 2021. That's long covid.

    This similar study also shows this.

    People infected with SARS-COV-2 had more than three times the risk of dying over the following year compared with those who remained uninfected.

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(22)00087-4/fulltext

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Strange you know that and not things like this:

    The number and the proportion of persons aged 65 years and over is increasing and is projected to continue an upward trend over the next three decades.

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/hubs/p-opi/olderpersonsinformationhub/ageingpopulation/

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    But it is currently the third youngest population in Europe. After Belgium and France.

    We are talking about deaths that already happened not in the future when the population gets old!

    You are saying old people moved here and died in their droves🤔

    This is worse than nonsense.

    Remember third youngest population in Europe. Remember 2nd highest excess deaths when compared to 2016-2019

    Why is this? No silly stuff



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nowhere did I say anything about old people moving here and dying in their droves. I honestly have no idea where you are getting any of that from. Go back and find the post where I said it please or drop it.

    It is explained in the CSO article.

    The number and the proportion of persons aged 65 years and over is increasing and is projected to continue an upward trend over the next three decades.

    This trend has already started and if you are comparing the same country over a period of time it is the trend within the country that will therefore show up in statistics such as a crude excess mortality comparison. The excess comparison within the country is a relative % based comparison.

    You are talking about overall older population versus younger population which is a totally different figure and missing the trend. We can have the 3rd youngest overall population but be seeing an increase in those over 65 relative to where we were previously.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,905 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    @BoxcarWilliam99 ridicule and derision of other contributors is against the Charter. Labelling the contribution of another poster as 'worse than nonsense' is not acceptable. If you cannot engage in proper discussion in line with the Charter move on to another thread.

    HS



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Ok sorry I was out of line

    Il move to a different thread



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Complete nonsense. Our increase of population is comprised mostly from young people. And that is a case with current rise from Ukraine included. Also long covid seems to have nothing to do with covid and more with psychosocial factors. (more straight talking people would say that most of the people thinking they have long covid are mostly miserable people with unhealthy lifestyle)



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭AerLingus747


    you said it's not under emergency legislation, so needs to be approved.... there are companies sitting on the CMA with drugs that aren't under emergency legislation, for a number of years...

    Your knowledge of the process and function is severely lacking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I posted a study link showing an inceased mortality from long covid ie post covid infection. You have not engaged or challenged it. That 9evidence stands. Therefore your claim of it being psychosocial are proven to be false, without foundation as it ignores the evidence presented in the study. Especially in how it relates to excess mortality discussions.

    Similarly CSO stats showing an increase in over 65s in Ireland. Again the data is not engaged or challenged and is official data impervious to futile claims of nonsense.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,955 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Your linked study is outdated.

    It is not my claim but a claim of researchers from Norway, Sweden, Great Britain, China, and Australia who took some time to put that study out and even though you may not like it, it is new peer-reviewed research published in Journal of the American Medical Association Network Open.

    You seems to ignore that as the time go people tend to learn more and old "facts" are being challenged and adjusted, sometimes even retracted.

    Therefore your attempt to "debunk" failed and you should evaluate new facts and perhaps acknowledge you may have been wrong. If you do not trust the science you may continue to stick to what you believe cherry-picking stuff which support your belief.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Its not outdated because how can it be outdated. It shows an increase in mortality post covid infection in the period of mortality being discussed which encompasses 2021.

    Its directly relevant and far more relevant therefore than the studies you quoted which were not related to mortality but tracked relatively mild symptoms or age groups least relevant.

    The study I linked shows long covid affecting mortality - which is the discussion it was cited in. For the period being discussed.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,786 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    More on Long Covid causing secondary conditions likely to increase mortality risk

    • Results of the study found that even after 2 years, people who had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were at an increased risk for several neurological and psychiatric disorders, including cognitive deficits, dementia, and seizures.

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/delta-omicron-infections-brain-fog-dementia-risk-still-high-after-2-years

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭323


    Indeed. And as the daily increasing evidence now shows, from the Pfizer documents they wanted locked away for 75 years being released. Pfizer knew their product would kill and destroy lives. Like the 23% excess mortality in the jabbed group compared to the placebo group in their trials. Ignored. Just coincidence that excess mortality number reflects what we're seeing everywhere in the jabbed. It's not happening in the unjabbed.

    Modernas's 24000 pages of documents, a court has ordered to begin release in July should make for interesting reading.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Don't suppose that you have a link to the trial data where it says that 23% excess mortality happened in the vaccine group during the trial? I'm sure you are not misunderstanding the numbers in anyway, or reading the opposite of what the report actually says or anything.



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