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Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    How can I even try to read past your first sentence when it contradicts itself??? If you can’t even get your first point correct, then no one will take the rest of your post seriously

    Was everyone vaccinated? No, therefore it can be a lie.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well the proof in the effectiveness of the vaccines can simply be seen by the numbers of vaccinated people who caught omicron, after assurances by certain people that they were "safe and effective" and that we had to get vaccinated to avoid the spread and to protect others.

    Politicians (& media outlets) were the source of most of the misinformation!



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,954 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Your statement is false and misleading on multiple counts.

    For one thing, when some of those statements were made, Omicron didn't exist yet. So it is a fundamentally deceptive argument, and an attempt at rewriting history. The statements were made in good faith based on the best available information at the time - and the data showed they provided significant protection against infection and transmission for the variants then in circulation. There's also studies showing that vaccinated people to be less infectious than unvaccinated even if the infection breaks through.

    Secondly, the effectiveness of the vaccines are judged in several ways. Protection against infection is one measure. But also protection against severe covid and death. This protection has been demonstrated in study after study, to be more durable than that versus infection only and to hold up verus Omicron.

    If you want to talk about misinformation, have a scan back over the thread and boards for some of utterly false and baseless anti vax allegations made against vaccines.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,630 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    99% of the arguments here boil down to the individual not understanding that the virus mutates.

    And a misunderstanding of the word immunity. Resistance to the disease, not "permanent invulnerability".



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭AerLingus747


    it's not really when you marry up vaccination rates, case count and geographical area... for your point to stand everyone would need to be equal and everywhere would need to be exposed to infection at the same time... you're marrying up correlation without causation support...

    a bit like saying people in Fiji didn't get the vaccine or COVID, but it was rampant in Ireland, hence the vaccine doesn't work.... where people in Fiji may never have even been exposed to it in the first place...

    everyone wants an easy answer, where its not so straight forward



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  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Too many here using the benefit of hindsight as their point of fact.


    At the time as per the clip the director of the CDC said on tv said vaccinated people do not carry the virus. A blatant lie. No matter the strain.

    How many of you were vaccinated yet caught the virus . Do you really believe that everyone who caught the virus got it from unvaccinated and unvaccinated only. Come on

    What else are they not telling you



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Remember when politicians "ordered" us to get vaccinated to "protect ourselves and those around us!" that was in fact complete rubbish, as you have correctly stated above.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    In all my life I don’t recall anyone ordering me to get any vaccine ever. Were you dragged into a vaccine centre and pinned down until you were vaccinated? Sources please.

    Post edited by Fighting Tao on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Vaccine passports, no jab no social life, so yes people were "ordered" to get a jab if they wanted to go in public venues, etc, not to count the number of employers who stated " no jab no job".

    More than enough proof there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    So you can’t provide proof then. Why not just say it?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,954 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Do you understand the definition of 'to lie'? It means to say something you know to be untrue. It speaks to intention. It doesn't mean they said something they believed was true at the time, which later turned out to be false or not fully correct.

    In other posts you have said someone lied, whether 'intentional' or not? For someone to lie there must be an element of intent.

    You haven't even tried to demonstrate this. You talk of the benefit of hindsight - when you are engaged in deceptive revisionism by contrasting their comments to variants not even in existence at the time she made the statement!

    When you have to abuse and distort and twist language with false definitions, it is proof positive of the falsehood of your position.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,954 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Are you putting it in quotes, because you can point to a quote from a politician ordering us to get vaccinated?

    And if you can't do that - this is a misleading attempt at deception?

    Or are you putting it in quotes because they didn't in fact order us to get vaccinated and this is your get out clause when challenged for evidence?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Do you not remember the vaccine passports that you had to show to go into a restaurant or any other venue, seriously!




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    irs no wonder you haven’t had any valid argument in this thread at all. You misunderstand words therefore giving a different meaning to articles you read and what you write. So the only conclusion is that you are here to discredit conspiracy theorists.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I take it that, either

    A, you've forgotten or B, you don't want to remember!



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,954 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Nobody was ordered to get vaccinated. Full stop.

    In your original claim you didn't make any reference to travel or hospitality.

    You are already shifting the meaning of your sentence when challenged to refer to needing a vaccine for travel or hospitality. That still does not mean anyone was ordered to get vaccinated.

    This is a constant tactic, make a statement you cannot stand over and when challenged shift the meaning of your claim.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Just remember one thing the word "ordered" was in inverted commas!

    The requirement to be vaccinated was "ordered", that does not mean there was a mandatory order issues, but what it does mean is that without the vaccination passport, you were prohibited from entering many public venues.

    So technically, people were "ordered" to be vaccinated if they wanted to socialise, and in some cases to keep their jobs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,954 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Which meant what exactly? So you could invent whatever meaning suited your present argument?

    So it means nothing. Just semantic games.

    So when you wrote people were "ordered" to get vaccinated you didn't actually mean people were ordered to get vaccinated.

    By your own admission, your words are not to be taken at face value.

    I think it's reasonable for readers of the thread to conclude posts made on such basis are without merit.

    Instead of debating the substance of the position, we discuss the meaning of words in quotes. Pointless.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    You need to look up the dictionary for the word ‘ordered’. Like so many things you post, it does not mean what you are trying to make us believe it means.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    Aren’t these usually the kind of people who likes to invoke 1984?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,630 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    No.

    There was a pandemic. We developed vaccines. The tests showed that the vaccines were up to 95% effective (on the variant at the time). The public were naturally urged to get vaccinated. People did, and despite the virus mutating more, the vaccines were still relatively effective on newer variants, especially in terms of cutting down hospitalizations and deaths from the virus. The vaccines are safe with very few incidents of deaths/serious injury from the billions of doses administered.

    The benefits of the vaccines have greatly outweighed any drawbacks. It's estimated they have saved millions of lives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,630 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    This thread had individuals losing their minds that we were living in "tyranny" because we had to wear a paper mask during a pandemic, or could get a free jab that could potentially save our lives.

    I can see they are already trying to rewrite history. All 6 of them. There's no known cure for fanaticism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So true, but if you look at the dwindling numbers taking up the offers to have yet another booster, then more and more people are coming to terms with the fact that they have been fooled into taking the vaccines, pushed into taking them by the government and the media.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,016 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    That doesn't show anything of the sort.

    Just shows that we are mostly out the other side of the pandemic and there isn't much reason now for most people to get the vaccine unless they want to as health services will mostly be able to cope with any expected surges. That rate of take up says nothing about people thinking they were fooled about anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,630 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    As always, this bizarre theme in the thread that there is some "scam" or "swindle" or "fooling" going on.

    It's not 2020, with a new unknown disease spreading rapidly, no vaccines and national health systems under threat. The pandemic is largely over, the vast majority of people are vaccinated, most older and at risk people are boosted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 655 ✭✭✭BoxcarWilliam99


    Groups of vaccine injured people and their families cast aside and ignored by government and politicians who are in the pocket of big pharma.





  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭AerLingus747


    more fool anyone who thought they were ordered.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    AstraZenica vaccines withdrawn in Australia due to rare but serious side affects.


    Hopefully other vaccines will also soon be withdrawn for similar reasons.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,954 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There is no evidence other vaccines such as pfizer need to be withdrawn and one of the reasons to withdraw AZ is that safer and effective alternatives can be recommended.

    Use of the word hopefully suggests your position against vaccines to be one without regard to evidence or consequences of not having vaccines available ie not an evidence based one.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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