Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

breezy1985 · 23-03-2023 07:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393124#Comment_120393124

Ah so unionists have a perfect plan full of unicorns and fairy dust for all.

But big but you are worried that the EU will block it or Sinn Fein sink it.

If only everyone would just listen to those nice helpful intelligent mild mannered unionists.

FrancieBrady · 23-03-2023 07:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393168#Comment_120393168

Well I hope for Unionism's sake it isn't like the shambles solution Jeffrey was suggesting in HoC yesterday - dual regulation. While he was doing that Sammy Wilson was telling the same government it wouldn't work.

https://twitter.com/JP_Biz/status/1638971691555516431

A split party walking. And as Alex Kane says, it will further fragment if Donaldson climbs down and implements the WF, magic 'nails' or not.

BlueSkyDreams · 23-03-2023 07:26PM

Is there any chance pf the DUP returning to Stormomt?

If not, will thet continue to be salaried indefinatley?

breezy1985 · 23-03-2023 07:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393220#Comment_120393220

There was supposed to be a new vote that has so far been delayed.

God knows if they still don't go in after that.

Sudden Valley · 23-03-2023 07:49PM

The DUP make even Enoch Burke look like a realist compared to them . The EU and UK have finished negotiating. Sunak is too strong now to give a damn about what they want and Starmer if he gets in next election will be the same. Baffling that they think they have any influence now.

FrancieBrady · 23-03-2023 08:32PM

Jamie Bryson advocating that Unionists use the Brake to cause maximum instability.

Another genius strategic move to save the union.

breezy1985 · 23-03-2023 09:03PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393452#Comment_120393452

To use the brake they need to stop their childish disruptive tactics in Stormont so it's lose lose for them.

Peregrinus · 24-03-2023 01:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393124#Comment_120393124

I'm not going to diss the wonderful plan until I actually know what it is. But I note that you present the EU and "Shinners" as the people likely to squash it. And this, I'm afraid, evokes the mindset which presented the protocol as something imposed by the EU rather than something sought by the hard Brexit UK government as a way of achieving their goal of hard Brexit.

I don't know what this amazing magic X is, but is their the teeniest possibility at all that there might be some in Westminster who would not be keen to do whatever Westminster might need to to facilitate it?

rock22 · 24-03-2023 06:44AM

Downcow,

Where is this marvellous ides going to be discussed and negotiated?

Because the DUP have pushed away almost all options. Stormont is closed. Westminster has moved on , with a strong endorsement of the WF. even if you have created perpetual motion, the EU won't be talking to you either. And you imply that the DUP are not extreme unionist enough for you. Are we moving into TUV territory now?

If your fellow community members, whoever they are, had such marvellous ideas then why wait till now, why wasn't it presented to Sunak on his visit to Belfast?. Why hasn't Stormont reconvened to sell such a game changing idea to the other NI parties? Why not, perhaps, make it public so we can all admire such thinking.

Fionn1952 · 24-03-2023 06:44AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393168#Comment_120393168

Please tell me your big reveal isn't the dual regulation 'plan'?

downcow · 24-03-2023 06:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394294#Comment_120394294

I don’t think I said the shinners would block it. If I did I apologise. What I meant is that sf will hate it because it would make ni even more successful and attractive. I couldn’t see them blocking it as that would be an own goal of DUP proportions. EU I think will outright attempt to block it , and may well succeed. It can only be good for UK so they would have no reason that I can see to block it. It absolutely may well end up a pipe dream but let’s see.

TUV probably won’t go along with it and I’d say DUP will be slit over it. The extremes on either side will have a problem

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2023 07:44AM

515 MP's to 29 MP's.

What 'pressure' Arlene? The DUP failed to apply pressure it seems to me. The 'no powersharing threat' is a damp squib, Sunak knew they DUP wouldn't go back in and cared less.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/arlene-foster-pressure-should-be-on-pm-to-fix-windsor-framework-and-not-on-dup/165359322.html

P.S.

“Instead we were treated to spin on a scale not seen since the justification of the Iraq war.”

The DUP and UUP voted for the Iraq War and for that matter the DUP voted for and created their own spin on Brexit.

'Spin' is clearly ok sometimes.

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2023 07:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394394#Comment_120394394

That this magic 'nail' hasn't emerged before the Deal is signed into law, today or tomorrow suggests to me that it is designed to be something that Unionists can spin as more victimhood if they don't get it.

downcow · 24-03-2023 07:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394391#Comment_120394391

Where did I imply dup were not extreme enough for me????

if this flies then I believe it is vital that it is not seen as a unionist initiative. The dup will blow it again if they come out proposing it. Where I heard it raised, the Dup were present, but I really hope they do not try to score brownie points for their party by trying to own it. This is a benifit to everyone (bar anyone who still has fantastical aspirations of a Ui in the next 25 years)

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2023 08:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394478#Comment_120394478

Some legal 'we love you really' clause from Westminster inserted into the agreement?

Peregrinus · 24-03-2023 08:13AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394394#Comment_120394394

Why would the EU attempt to block it?

(And something "only being good for the UK" is not, these days, a reason for thinking that the UK will not block it. The Brexit process has largely consisted of the UK rejecting things that were only good for the UK.)

My, um, scepticism here is based on the fact that the NI Protocol was a UK ask, and they asked for it in order to acheive hard Brexity outcomes that, for whatever reason, they wanted. If there's a magic bullet that would solve NI's protocol problems without requiring the UK to modify their Brexit in any way and without imposing any cost, or threatening any harm, to the UK, that would be wonderful. Improbable, but wonderful. But, the thing is, there would be no reason for the EU to block it.

You seem confident that the EU will "outright attempt to block" this wonderful thing, which strongly suggest that you know the wonderful thing would cause some kind of problem for the EU. But you're not telling us what that problem is.

If the wonderful thing requires the EU to sacrifice its interests in order to solve Brexit problems that the UK has created for itself, it may not be quite as wonderful as advertised. Just sayin'.

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2023 08:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394505#Comment_120394505

Why would the EU attempt to block it?

Because there has to be a boogeyman. This cohort of Unionism don't do 'solutions' they do 'wins for Unionism only' while everyone else is either a loser or bitter (SF) or hostile to them (EU/Dublin)

breezy1985 · 24-03-2023 09:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394478#Comment_120394478

Oh come on just tell us what this magic plan is.

Honestly if you can't then you are just on a wind up which has no place in this forum.

Seth Brundle · 24-03-2023 09:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394478#Comment_120394478

So am I correct in thinking that this "idea" for a better alternative currently has no political backing?

Water John · 24-03-2023 09:57AM

Here's a wonderful idea that solves the problem. Unionists instead vote for the UUP, remarkably simple.

Doug Beattie was in Dublin last night and seems a reasonable man. Oddly enough, it would probably ensure a UI poll would not happen.

https://www.thejournal.ie/bertie-ahern-honoured-by-uup-leader-at-event-marking-25th-anniversary-of-good-friday-agreement-6027569-Mar2023/

pixelburp · 24-03-2023 10:04AM

Let's breakdown things then:

Westminster backs the WF by a supermajority, positively unheard in these days of fractious UK politics.
IE/EU supports it without quibble (though that obviously may not curry much favour with some)
Most parties in NI have backed the various iterations of post-Brexit frameworks; including now this one.
Most polled of the general population back the WF by a clear, undisputed margin
Many, most business leaders apparently support the Agreements (open to correction there, don't think there are formal polls?)

So does the DUP recognise the mandate implied by all those factors and demographics? Of course it doesn't. No no no. Never. They have their little veto and they're holding onto it for dear life.

As always, the urge to throw out a meme is strong but I can only quote the thing instead:

Why, there are no children here at the 4H club, either! Am I so out of touch?

No; it's the children who are wrong.

Fionn1952 · 24-03-2023 10:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394841#Comment_120394841

The backlash the UUP were receiving on Twitter was horrendous, as expected.

retalivity · 24-03-2023 11:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394841#Comment_120394841

God, that's going to drive the fringe/bryson element crazy.

24-03-2023 12:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394868#Comment_120394868

It's amazing how DUP brand Unionism keeps aiming at an open goal and continually misses. There was a question in an Irish News opinion poll in March of last year which asked: "if devolved politics worked better people would focus less on the constitutional question". Two-thirds of Nationalists and Others agreed with this. If Unionism wants to maintain a pro-Union majority it really needs to work the Assembly effectively to keep soft Nationalists and undecideds in the camp.

downcow · 24-03-2023 01:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394547#Comment_120394547

I think you are misreading what I said. I said everyone would be a winner except extreme republicans. I am not sure how eu would approach it, but they have form

downcow · 24-03-2023 01:11PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394775#Comment_120394775

Yes, as I understand it. But days should change that.

It won’t shock you when it comes out. It is just incredible no one thought of negotiating it before now - I guess focus was elsewhere

FrancieBrady · 24-03-2023 01:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395732#Comment_120395732

So we are back to some legal ‘we love you really’ text from the British to be inserted into the Agreement.

Seth Brundle · 24-03-2023 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120395737#Comment_120395737

Yeah, I'm not sure about that strategy! Wouldn't it have been better to announce it all before it is made into full international law? I bet that this won't go further than a few unionists saying how they want things changed!

Fionn1952 · 24-03-2023 01:36PM

It's very telling how unwilling Downcow is to give absolutely any details whatsoever on this supposedly brilliant plan. Almost like intentionally leaving room to back out without egg on one's face.

If it wasn't as full of holes as a Swiss cheese just raked by machine gun fire, I'm sure you'd be shouting it from the rooftops @downcow

Choochtown · 24-03-2023 01:46PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392876#Comment_120392876

I really hope that one day you will find the vocabulary to debate an issue without resorting to "what about them'uns?"

My remark was about the proven bigot Donaldson not about Sinn Fein.

Yes, a "pretty nasty remark" but true nonetheless and very relevant to this discussion.

In most areas of politics (even politics that one may disagree with) a logical strategy can be seen. Even Trump's bluster for the most part had some sort of aim or strategy behind it. The DUP's self-destructive behaviour over the past few years and particularly the last year suggests to me that their bigotry is over-riding their logic. I've stated here before that I believe their unwillingness to enter a democratically-elected assembly with a "Taig" as First Minister is nothing whatsoever to do with the protocol. Donaldson is actually on record defending an Irish sea border on BBC Spotlight.

The British Parliament in London democratically voted in the Brexit bill that contained the protocol arrangement. Not once was there a suggestion that Jeffrey and his Unionist buddies would bring a protest to Downing Street about the outcome.

Is it too much hassle to travel to protest there? Should a protest in Downing Street only be about something that's really really important?

Attached is a link to when Jeffrey did travel to London to protest. Not only that but he was the keynote speaker.

The issue? The Royal family intended to drop their ban on Catholics!!! As I said ... a proven bigot.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/orange-order-protest-over-catholic-monarch-ban-move/28680378.html

Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

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