Rugby 101 - Know your rucks from your mauls!

padjocollins wrote: »

i've vague memories of it. I think he might have had an issue with setting up a ruck if that's what we did, as there was no tackle maybe illegal offside. if one of my players took the ball and ran with it after i placed it , we might have gotten away with it and the ref might have just given me a withering look (deserved).

It's a while since I refereed, but there is a general prohibition on doing anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship (Law 9.27):

"A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship" It would be within the ref's discretion to apply that (sanction penalty kick).

In any event, Law 13 states:

"Principle: The game is played only by players who are on their feet.

1. Players who go to ground to gather the ball or who go to ground with the ball must immediately (a) get up with the ball, or (b) play (but not kick) the ball, or (c) release the ball.

2. Once the ball is played or released, players on the ground must immediately either move away from the ball or get up.

3. A player on the ground without the ball is out of the game and must (a) allow opponents who are not on the ground to play or gain possession of the ball, (b) not play the ball, (c) not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent."

Sanction is PK for all contraventions. Law 14 deals with Tackle separately.

So there is nothing specifically to prevent a player going to ground voluntarily. If they do so, pending actions by another player there is nothing to create an offside line and no tackle therefore no gate. If the player complied with Law 13 but in the meantime a ruck formed over the ball (Law 15 - a ruck is formed when at least one player from each teom are in contact on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground) this would generate an offside line governed by Law 15 etc.

However, I would referee a player who goes to ground voluntarily very strictly, as it is not positive play. So I would require them to get up, play it or release the ball and move away, quite literally, immediately. I would be very harsh if there was any suspicion of causing an obstruction to other players as a result of their actions.

If you had other players come in over the player who goes to ground, making one side of a ruck over the ball as you describe then that's highly likely to cause an obstruction independently of what the player who went to ground does. Penalty Kick, subject to any advantage if an opposing player does manage to secure the ball.

If they do this but the ball is played away quickly ("immediately") and no obstruction takes place, then play on.

padjocollins wrote: »

Another thing I got caught out for in training is not making sure the tackler goes to ground with me . Sneaky/Crafty bugger tackles me but lets me go ground and manages to stay on his feet. if he's on his side of the pitch he can immediately jackal me for the ball. feels like getting done over , as it is. Thats what training is for i suppose.

Sure is.

If you have support players close by they should deal with players trying to take the ball from you. If not you have to attempt to take and manage the contact on the best terms possible for your team. You could fight to keep your feet until they are closer, and it will often be advantageous to force tacklers to commit to going to ground with you so that he must release and regain his feet before playing for the ball, rather than letting them kind of brush you off down to the ground, retaining their feet themselves.

You can't pull him off his feet as he tries to disengage though. That would be a penalty if spotted.

No, the rule states that a player can jump "from within or without" the playing area and catch the ball and prevent the ball from being in touch, even if it looks like it's broken the plane of the touchline.

It was a change to the rules in or around 2018 I think.

Can anyone tell me if the laws around hitting a retreating 'accidentally offside' player have changed?

So for example, there is a ruck formed and the 9 from Team A is at the back of the ruck waiting to take the ball out.

A player from Team B is on the wrong side of the ball - not in the ruck but retreating from a previous phase.

You would occasionally see a 9 intentionally hit the player for the penalty (intentionally / cynically), but I can't really remember it happening much anymore even to the degree where I've seen 9's delay release to ensure they didn't hit the retreating player.

I remember one or two instances where a ref wasn't happy with what the 9 had done but applying the rules. But it seems to have drifted out of the game as an act of 'dark arts' if you want to call it that.

Have the laws changed?

As a former scrum half, it always really frustrated me when referees penalised scrum halves for what they believe are 9's deliberately passing into an offside player.

If you're offside, you should be down on the ground, not impeding play. If you're standing up and retreating back to your own side, and you run in the scrum half's passing lane to either side of the ruck, you should be penalised in my opinion. Otherwise, you're cutting off one side of the field to the 9 and taking an option.

When a 9 throws it into a player who is blatantly in an offside position he is essentially saying "I can't pass this ball in this direction because this player is standing in my passing lane". It doesn't matter if the 9 wouldn't have intended to go that way ordinarily, you're entitled to have both sides of the field open to you.

It's one of those issues where the ref will use his discretion and decide it case by case, and you do see scenarios where if the ref thinks the scrum half is trying to buy a penalty then he won't give it him, and it usually results in a stalled attack.

Lol.