Rugby 101 - Know your rucks from your mauls!

hold my beer

I'm sure I've seen JGP throw the ball at an offside player on purpose a few times the last while. And he got the peno. Or maybe it was Luke

blackwhite

I think it depends on the situation.

If the offside player runs across the 10 channel then if the SH throws the ball at him it’s still a case of offside player obstructing the pass and a pen should be awarded, If the SH was forced to delay his pass to let the offside player get out of the way then it’s giving the defence additional time to get set.

If the offside player isn’t along a genuine passing lane then the SH throwing the ball at him isn’t a genuine passing attempt and shouldn’t be rewarded with a penalty

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119957609#Comment_119957609

Agreed , similar to where they pull a player over a ruck looking for a penalty and the referee won't give it (or at least shouldn't).

Ardillaun

Has anyone subjected games to VAR-style technology retrospectively to see how many offsides are missed?

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120376903#Comment_120376903

With the all the law changes focused on encouraging attacking rugby over the past few seasons, it's quite odd that there hasn't been a push for stronger refereeing of the offside line. It's a quick fix, without any law changes, that would directly make it more attractive for teams to play attacking rugby

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120378569#Comment_120378569

I think it would slow the game at first until players got used to it but they’d learn pretty fast. Humans just aren’t able to see the small infractions. At the very least, somebody with the know how should be reviewing games and figuring out how bad the problem is.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120376903#Comment_120376903

Theres probably loads of offsides but how many would be material? Its pointless anyway. You could review a lot of tackle/rucks and pull up something else each time you watch as well.

Water John

Yes, where it comes into life is when one team is getting close to the try line in multiple phases. Almost always the defending eventually go offside.

Each rugby game is dynamic and contains a number of actors. The chief three are, the referee and the two captains. It's through that the interpretation of the laws is implemented as the referee sees appropriate.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380515#Comment_120380515

It depends.

England in their best years under Eddie Jones seemed to live offside. Their defensive set was based off being up in teams faces as fast as possible and you nearly always had their 12&13 starting well ahead of the back foot. It was fundamental to how they would try to shut down teams who tried to beat the English bulk with a faster back line

Properly refereeing the offside for teams such as that would have a massive impact on the game

BoardsMember

What is the law related to penalties taken quickly and the defender not being back 10?

There seemed to be some technical assessment of Jonny getting over the line where I think it was Farrell was deemed not offside but seemed like maybe he was.

And then someone in the match thread suggested his line of running shepherded Jonny into a tackler.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381643#Comment_120381643

One a player who started from an onside position has moved forward, anyone they pass is brought onside by that player.

The logic being if they had started from an onside position they’d be no worse than they currently are once the onside player reaches them

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120381682#Comment_120381682

There's also the element that the player in front needs to be seen to move backwards.

You can't just stand there and wait to be put onside.

In the case on Saturday the ref decided that Farrell was back-pedaling and Itoje moved forward from behind the goal line and had moved ahead of Farrell before either of them made contact with Sexton putting them both onside.

If Farrell hadn't moved it would have been a penalty.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120380515#Comment_120380515

Well, what is material: 1mm, 10mm, 1000mm? Surely, some degree of offside matters or why have laws about it? Take your pick and we’ll make that the standard. At the moment, in my very inexpert opinion, there is insufficent consistency in enforcement.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385578#Comment_120385578

A ruck 5m from touch and the winger of defence is a step offside and is on the far 5m line is not material. Not every offside matters. you warn player if you really need to but you dont penalise it. that isnt being inconsistent. its managing the game. you cant and wont penalise every infringement. you penalise what is material to play

like at a ruck a defending player goes off their feet but the ball is at back foot and scrum half can get ball away do you penalize. not always. you play on and warn player..

It depends on situation whether its material. you cant set a standard because it wont be met because its impossible to meet it

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385800#Comment_120385800

That's very different to the consistent tactic that plenty of teams employ of having a hard rush defence in the centre channels and usually starting from centre line of the ruck or even oppositions back foot, instead of starting from their own back foot line.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120385800#Comment_120385800

What about defenders moving offside as the ball comes out of a ruck in front of them? Their position certainly matters. Do you think all such offenders are caught at the moment?

BoardsMember

TMO for the last play in the Scotland v Italy game should be shot. Fagerson miles offside stopped the try, caused the knock on.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120390367#Comment_120390367

Is there a pic of it?