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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It shows that Russia has severe trouble taking a town in Ukraine, how will it have any hope with the cities in the 4 oblasts it claims?


    Severodonetsk, how will Russia manage that, never mind all the other towns.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 576 ✭✭✭Bitcoin


    Front line has barely moved in a week, but yes, keep parroting the pro-orc propaganda.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It speaks to how badly Russia is led when the only man who has delivered some progress for them, is reduced to games and feints to force the delivery of needed supplies.


    If Russia was even just poorly organized it would have half of Ukraine now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,741 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Me too. It was looking very bad for Bakmut last week, still is but there is hope. At worst they can do a fighting withdrawl and prepare a hot welcome for the invaders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I'd be of similar opinion,he's not made any real progress except on the outskirts of bakhmut,it still doesn't make sense he's single handledly holding the Ukrainans back from the whole of donesk and Lugansk,the Ukrainans aren't even trying to them yet ,

    Surely he knows if the Ukrainans decide to make a big enough push they will break through in various locations and his force won't be able to stop them,



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,341 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    I don't know if he's produced much "progress" really.

    Seems like they can just be more brutal and wasteful in their tactics. It doesn't appear matter to Putin, Prigozhin or anyone else how many of these "Wagner" mercenary people may perish in the line of duty. They have to do what they are ordered to do, or they will probably be killed anyway, that seems to be the main advantage they have.

    Am guessing Putin/leadership of regular Russian army might not quite want to return to the Stalin days of the punishment batallions and large numbers of NKVD loyalty troops literally holding bayonets to the backs of the soldiers in front of them doing the fighting. A wholesale return to that kind of stuff with entire Russian army (vs some mercenaries and ex prisoners etc.) could cause some explosions at home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    More on the captured manual for the new assault groups formed by the Russians,this goes some way to explain how to FIBUA , urban combat, taking building and movement in areas ,

    While having a manual can help in a classroom setting as part of a broad training program ,but it's feck all use on the go with forces who have little or no infantry training/school before being dumped in Ukraine, especially if they don't have the experienced NCOs capable of running the show on the ground,




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,037 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Where have I said that every single Russian is the same? I've lived in Russia, and have many friends there. And for sure they are not all natural born murderous killers, and under normal circumstances you would not hear a peep out if them. But Putins Russia is far from normal by any standard's, and when Russian's young or old are forced into his killing machine, that changes. Then as we have seen, they rape, murder and steal, and a bullet is the best solution. If a few bears escaped Dublin Zoo, and went on a deadly rampage of death and destruction, the best and quickest way to stop them is to kill them. And that's what Putins bears are doing in Ukraine, and the solution is the same.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,428 ✭✭✭Wolf359f




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,037 ✭✭✭jmreire


    I agree, but what would you suggest that should have been done? Declared war on Russia when they attacked Grozny? Now that would have stopped Putin in his track's, for sure, but why was it not done? Same with Georgia and after the Litvinenko poisoning. Only now is an attempt being made to stop him. Maybe something to do with the perception that up to now Russia had the biggest and best military in the world after the US, plus they "Had the Bomb"?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,108 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." Desmond Tutu

    The Orc embassy in Dublin is their main intelligence hub for western Europe, which doesn't just gather intelligence to help the Orcs Marinkafy communities in Syria, Ukraine - everywhere their fithy black Orc hearts have an interest in - but also performs more sinister functions, like acting as a base from which actual operatives work from and go forth to do evil, like that Cork cow in Australia. The government just lets it all happen as if their and Ireland's 'neutrality' is something admirable and that the activities enabled by that embassy are worthy of protection and succour.

    IMO the Irish government isn't neutral, but is actually complicit in evil by enabling it and turning a blind eye to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    Totally agree with the bear scenario. I think the difference between us is after the event, I would say it was a tragic that the bears lost their life and the real issue was how they escaped in the first place.

    I have always said Russia should be evicted from Ukraine, and the drip feed of weapons to Ukraine should be accelerated. But posters disagree with me that the loss of human life is tragic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Gorbachev was by far the nicest Communist leader in Russia, he over saw the killing of 2.5mn in Afghanistan and unknown more in the Soviet Union.


    Putin could only dream of the control he had, Russia will never go back to the savagery of pure Communism, even with a Putin victory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,108 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    How's that stupid argument go, Ukraine don't need fighter aircraft, they don't understsnd the practicalities of war and would just waste them by having them shot down during the course of using them.

    IMG_20230305_123011_837.jpg

    During the fighting between the trees, you can see not only Ukrainian helicopters, but also our Su-27 supersonic fighters



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,037 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes, but the killer for Prigozhin was that try his hardest, he was unable to hand Bakhmut to Putin in time for the anniversary "Celebrations". Would not surprise me either if the regular Russian army leadership deliberately hindered him at every turn. There's no love lost between them. And this story, like Bakhmut is not over yet either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,269 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec



    Those kind of people all seem to tick the same boxes. They hate the US, most having "I stand with Palestine" on their Facebook pages, and believe in all kinds of conspiracy theories. I haven't come across one yet who wasn't an anti-vaxxer, and anyone criticising them gets accused of only getting their facts from the "MSM", yet they don't tell people where they get their "facts" from. They also like using the word woke. They probably participate in all the anti-migrant marches, and still support Trump, even though he was the president of another country, and whose only connection to Ireland was Doonbeg.

    I think there might be some other boxes ticked that I can't recall at this moment. 😐️



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,037 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Even IF they lose Bakhmut to the Russians, thats not quite the same as saying Ukraine has lost the war...far from it!!, just remember where Ukraine was this time last year, now that was really bad, almost hopeless in fact, consensus was that in a few days or week's at the most, the war would be over, and Putin in control. Yet look at what happened, and compare then with now. They are in an infinitely better position, while Russian has lost nearly 50% of the territory it once held, post invasion. All the naysayers and doomsday prophesizing has come to naught, and Ukraine will win and Putin will be defeated in the end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭storker


    The downside of a lot of these videos coming out of Ukraine is the seemingly obligatory heavy metal soundtrack, when in fact the sound of gunfire or battle is all the music they need.

    😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,037 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Loss of life is always tragic, this goes without saying, and its this tragic loss of Ukrainian Life at the hands of Putin that has which triggered this war. This is very clear who the culprit is. Now what do you suggest could or should have been done to prevent Putin invading Ukraine? ( or indeed any of his previous criminal acts? )



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Not a fan at all of any of the music choices in any of the videos myself either,

    I'd rather if they just muted the drone noises ,



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭storker


    They see themselves as great critical thinkers, but it hasn't dawned on them that a knee-jerk reaction of discounting everything a certain source says is just as stupid as a knee-jerk acceptance of it, and while they laugh at people who agree with MSM versions of events, they eat up alternative versions* with a big spoon and ask for seconds, no matter how poor the evidence, how unsound the argument or how blatant the agenda.


    *Usually YouTube grifters. Apparently watching lots of these is called "doing your own research".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    I am assuming if one of your Russian friends was forcibly conscripted and sent to the front and killed you would think that the loss of his life was tragic, understandable given he was wearing the uniform but never the less tragic ?

    If that's the case what exactly do disagree with in my posts ?

    Regarding Putin, I am no expert but I think much stronger action could have been taken before the event detailing how much the west was was going support Ukraine in the event of invasion, it might have been enough to make Putin think twice.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭storker


    Interesting analysis and background by Julia Ioffe (31st Jan 2023). Some stand-out points she makes:

    • No promise was given to Russia that NATO would no expand.
    • Westerners tend to assume that Russians fundamentally have similar attitudes and values to them. They don't. Being western-looking doesn't make them western-thinking. On the intrnational stage, Russians tend to be cynical and lie where westerners are usually more up-front. This can result in westerners tending to assume the Russians are being honest, and Russians tending to assume that westerners are lying.
    • Trump was an easy mark for Putin to manipulate.
    • The Russians expected sanctions and thought they could soak them up as in 2014, but did not anticipate the scale of the current sanctions or the unity shown by the west.
    • It's naive to aussume that there are moderate waiting to take over from Putin. He is more likely to be replaced by someone even worse.
    • Most interestingly, she expects the military conflict to end shortly, but (frustratingly) the interviewer fails to press her for more detail about this opinion.


    It's along clip (over an hour) but worth watching. (In the spirit of full disclosure I do find her very easy on the eye and ear. 😀)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I watched that interview last week. She's always very insightful. Frontline posted a couple of other long-form interviews with her.

    Regarding the supposed promise that was made to Gorbachev, and that Putin has repeated more than once, from my searching around, it appears that no assurance was ever given in writing, but that promises were made verbally. The promises, however, were that NATO would not place any military infrastructure in the former East Germany. Nothing about NATO expanding to other former Eastern Bloc countries, although Gorbachev also said that NATO expansion into these countries violated the spirit of what had been originally agreed, even though NATO had stuck to the original promise of placing no military infrastructure in the former GDR.

    Regarding Putin's potential fall from power and who replaces him, I suppose that depends somewhat on how his fall from power occurs. If his fall is due to some internal machinations; some political skullduggery, then I could see him being replaced by someone as bad, but if it's due to public discontent over the war bubbling over - if people start saying no to conscription, then a more extreme version of Putin would have a very shaky mandate. At best they'd end up trying to manage two wars - one at home and one abroad.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,570 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    They've mostly crappy dance soundtracks, at least this one had Rammstein (still not heavy metal) and fits nicely with the mechanics at play



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭vixdname


    You make a good point in fairness but Id weight the pros and cons of such an action as opening fire on pro russian bus ins.

    CON: Itd give Putin propaganda material

    PRO: Itd put a full stop to any more of these "Rallies" going ahead as the participants will know their fate, so for me I say open fire and we'll take the hit with the short lived propaganda material for Putin, BUT, thats just my opinion of course !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,037 ✭✭✭jmreire


    LOL.....Yessss ooof course, we have, and have after careful consideration decided that they have not got one iota of justification for their illegal murderous invasion of an independent neighbouring state.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 502 ✭✭✭Fritzbox


    If the Western countries decided to send to Ukraine fighter aircraft such as F-16 or Typhoon, do you think the Ukrainian Air Force would have enough qualified pilots to fly comnbat missions, or enough qualified technicians to keep them serviceable? I would have my doubts myself?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,067 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It's progress, relatively speaking, Bakhmut will fall shortly, at horrendous cost to the Russian penal system, at horrendous cost to Russian munitions as well.


    It has also come at horrendous cost to Ukraine, the Wall St Journal saying it has been so brutal that it will delay the Spring counter offensive.


    A lot more dead on both sides before Russia is pushed back.


    Russia could easily exhaust itself to collapse after another year or two of this.


    Ukraine will be lucky to avoid being a failed State, there are 8mn and rising refugees from there across Western Europe. If they don't go back in the next few years, then Ukraine has no future.


    Like all significant wars the consequences of this will be playing out long after the guns stop.


    2 broken failed States with a stand off in bits of Donbas might be the final outcome, the every one loses in one way scenario.


    The quicker it ends, the less damage to all, Europe and North America should be ramping up military aid, all aid.


    More dead now will mean a lot less dead long term.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,462 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    And what would happen to the invaders during the Ukrainian offensive you're hoping will happen?

    The interesting thing is that now that is a possibility (like the hmm'ing and haw'ing over tanks a month back) a year ago it would have been absolutely unthinkable, those requests are out there and russia isn't threatening retaliation against the west (in any serious way) if they happen.



This discussion has been closed.
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