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Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,703 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Not everybody is agreed on the plausibility of the evidence that X reduces transmission, which rather illustrates Calamari's point.

    We included 12 trials (10 cluster‐RCTs) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness (two trials with healthcare workers and 10 in the community). Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza‐like illness (ILI)/COVID‐19 like illness compared to not wearing masks (risk ratio (RR) 0.95, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.84 to 1.09; 9 trials, 276,917 participants; moderate‐certainty evidence. Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of laboratory‐confirmed influenza/SARS‐CoV‐2 compared to not wearing masks (RR 1.01, 95% CI 0.72 to 1.42; 6 trials, 13,919 participants; moderate‐certainty evidence)

    https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    I nitpicked during "the covid", never mind with hindsight, and it looks like I was right to complain about my civil liberties being restricted for nothing.

    Majority of the public supported the actions you say?

    How about someone who knew something was off with their body but couldn't get anyone to have a good look at it. Did they support the restrictions and reduction in health services?

    The public were threatened, cajoled, browbeat, coerced and guilt tripped into toeing the line and supporting the restrictions. You needed to live in a hermetically sealed box not to be confronted by covid propaganda. If you stepped out of line there were many, many people, including your neighbours, who were all to happy to hang you out to dry.

    Preying on peoples fears is what caused people to support the restrictions.... leave granny sitting in the open window or you'll kill her, better still, don't visit her in first place, it's safer that way.

    It's shameful era of our country's history, but yeah, you feel free to keep saying that everything was rosy in the garden, carry on supporting the restrictions and the government trying to establish a mini-China.

    People supported the restrictions because they had no other choice, while King Tony and his minions, sorry, the national health bodies, just went on a power trip, plain and simple.... but it was for the greater good so no problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    Got a text message from the HSE today, reminding me I was due my covid booster..... Reported the text as spam and deleted it.

    Obviously I didn't get the booster, won't be getting it either, and I don't know of many others who did get it.

    Mind you, they probably got jabbed on the quiet and said nothing to me because they didn't need that ballache on a Monday morning 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    civil liberties

    Measures against the pandemic had nothing to do with civil liberties or politics. In 1918, during the Spanish flu epidemic, there were masks, lockdowns, distancing, and similar measures to tackle that spread.

    There were also individuals back then who perceived those measures were political or "attacks" on their freedom and railed against them as such.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,705 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Some US cities took measures against the Spanish flu, not all, and barely any mandatory public health measures took place outside the US. Unless you can provide evidence of widespread, worldwide school closures and social distancing measures, then it was nothing alike. The truth is, the scale of COVID lockdowns, school and business closures, travel restrictions, vaccine passports etc was unprecedented in history

    https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0611071104



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭US3


    Remember we couldn't travel more then 5km. Couldn't go for a walk outdoors at the beach, meanwhile hundreds of gardai visited every tourist spot in the country to do a dance off for tick tok.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It was 100 years ago, and they still used the same measures to "flatten the curve", which had effect as we can see city by city.

    When this pandemic went global, countries all over the world enacted similar measures to tackle it, reduce cases and reduce deaths. Measures that were supported by the majority of the public.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    Anything that prevented me from doing what was considered normal up until it wasn't, I would consider restrictions on my civil liberties, especially since I hadn't committed a henious crime.

    Examples:

    You can leave the house, but don't go too far, and heaven forbid, don't you dare sit on a park bench because sitting outdoors isn't exercise

    Stay away from that beach, the guards have it closed down so they can ensure good social distancing while they dance

    Driving to the supermarket of you choice was banned, you can only drive to the nearest one

    I could go on.

    Measures against the pandemic were overkill, to put it mildly.

    All that bolloxology and covid still ran wild through the population, yet the country or the world for that matter, didn't melt down.

    So you can keep your measures and don't tell me that they were for my own protection.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    Measures were supported....

    How we laughed 🤣

    Yeah they were voluntarily supported all right, the support had nothing to do with the 24/7 omnipresence of covid propaganda.

    Some people can just about add 2 & 2, myself included (not a numbers person), yet the entire country was able to quote the covid R number on any given day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭Allinall


    Zero PCR positives reported yesterday. That must be a first.

    Will finally get out for a pint tonight.

    Cant wait.



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  • Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    People were supportive back in March 2020 when the media were spreading fake pictures of people dropping dead in the streets and our experts were claiming that 100,000 Irish could die.

    It very quickly became clear that it was all nonsense though and support very quickly dropped.


    What's clear is that we really need our experts to be calm in these situations and make sensible short, medium and long term decisions.

    What we got is experts panicking, causing panic and just copying each other.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,521 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Poll after poll showed consistent support for the government's approach, not just in March 2020 but in 2021.

    Even at the time, people were highly sceptical of those pictures on social media. People were asked to provide evidence on the thread of mainstream media pushing it as something that actually happened and were unable to. If you are going to claim they played some big role in public opinion, I predict you will be completely unable to support that claim.

    What people reacted to was reports of what was actually happening in hospitals in Wuhan and Bergamo.

    This is revisionism without foundation.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,521 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Your argument jumped the shark somewhere around 'mini China'.

    Only a poster profoundly ignorant of China and what a lockdown in China meant as opposed to what we had here could say that.

    People supported the restrictions - proof is in poll after poll and broad public support for the measures as a means to protect the vulnerable in society and the health service. The protests against them were a handful of fringe cranks, most of the population wanted no truck with. A lot of people thought we could have opened things earlier, or queried some of the specific measures, but there was overwhelming public recognition that this was an unprecedented situation of threat to public health and the government acted legitimately in responding to it with strong measures.

    So the fact that all through it you were posting here querying and opposing the government approach, without any government restrictions being placed on you, is proof positive of the falsehood of your claims about 'mini China'. So well done for that.

    Post edited by odyssey06 on

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Yup, they were supported by a majority of the public, repeated polls showed this. Remember, this wasn't just one country, or a handful, it was pretty much universal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,521 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    There was nothing really new in any of the measures used for covid, they all had historical precedents.

    The scale of the covid response is a factor of the increase in global population and speed of communications and national co-ordination and extent of bureaucracy. Nothing more. So to make that the premise of your argument demonstrates a profound ignorance and lack of understanding of historical realities and constraints.

    So yeah, they didn't have vaccine passports for travel. They just quarantined the ships 40 days.

    You are worried about vaccine passports and schools being closed?

    Have a read of this.

    In 1563, when plague struck again (as the disease did most years, although some outbreaks were more severe than others), the lord mayor ordered that blue crosses should be attached to doors of houses that held anyone infected with plague over the past week. Inhabitants were to stay indoors for one month after the death or infection of anyone in the building. Only one uninfected person was allowed out of the house, in order to buy provisions for the sick or healing. To mark their health they were meant to carry a white rod, which if they forgot would incur a fine or even imprisonment. In 1539 plague struck London again and houses were to be incarcerated for 40 days – the typical quarantine period stipulated in 14th-century Venice. By 1580 shipping was heavily monitored, and crews and passengers were quarantined either on board their vessels or in the port where they had disembarked. Merchants were kept at the port of Rye and were prohibited from entering the city, and all goods were to be aired in order not to transport infection. Movement was also monitored within the country – travellers into London from outside counties were prohibited if there was known to be plague in their area.

    And more on historical use of vaccine passports:

    https://www.npr.org/2021/04/08/985253421/the-history-of-vaccine-passports-in-the-u-s-and-whats-new

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭Worztron


    "Couldn't go for a walk outdoors at the beach"

    Yep, that was just silly.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭Worztron


    Reported it as spam? Why?

    I got a reminder SMS yesterday from the HSE. I've gotten the first two vaccines and the first booster. I'm in two minds as to whether I'll get the second booster.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    I've never answered a telephone poll honestly, yet how can the pollsters know that?

    Opinion polls count for nothing, especially if the questions are leading.

    The only polls that count are verified elections and referendums, and you know that.

    Support through fear.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    I've had enough of the HSE & covid, I don't want their text messages.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Are your personal views.

    There were extensive polls on this across many countries, the results were clear. Public sentiment in support of the measures was strong, especially at the beginning, when the disease was new and our knowledge was low. Thankfully adherence to the measures was also quite high, with most people respecting e.g. mask-wearing, etc, and understanding it on principle.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,918 ✭✭✭Worztron


    But you may want other non-CV19 SMS from the HSE in the future. By marking it as spam, you may not get those.

    Mitch Hedberg: "Rice is great if you're really hungry and want to eat two thousand of something."



  • Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭ Estrella Eager Cereal


    A very high % of people I know (myself included) all got COVID (mostly with mild symptoms) around Christmas. So none of those people will be getting vaccinated until after 4-6 months have passed.

    Implying that the whole country's suddenly turned anti-vax is nonsense. Once again, the HSE/DoH isn't really interpreting stats very well or gathering them properly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    It's a risk I'm willing to take, I've also blocked the close contact SMS rubbish.

    I've made it this far in life without needing unsolicited communications from the HSE, I think I'll survive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    My personal views you say?

    OK then, tell me when was the last time a government got elected via opinion poll? I'm willing to bet the answer is never.

    Governments or public policy shouldn't be decided by calling a select bunch of random strangers and asking them leading questions. It's everyone or nothing, surely such a smart covid supporter as yourself can see that.

    Opinion polls by their design or nature cannot reflect the will if the entire nation, meaning that all those opinion polls in support of covid count for nothing.

    Have a verifiable vote or go away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,521 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Yeah there's a clue in your post 'random'. Randomly selected strangers.

    It's obvious you don't understand how opinion polls work.

    Who said governments were elected by opinion polls? Nobody.

    This is deflection and smokescreen,

    Opinion polls are reliable within a margin of error.

    The margin of support in the polls for restrictions, here and abroad are far in excess of such margins of error.

    The margin of support reflected in polls is a broadly accurate reflection of public opinion on the issues. They don't have to reflect the will of every single person in the country, to give that broad indication of support and it's patently absurd to even suggest it.

    Only someone who doesn't understand opinion polls or is simply desperate to rubbish them because they don't like the poll result would suggest it.

    Your argument hasn't a leg to stand on, you've now had to resort to conspiracy theories about opinion polls.

    So yes they are your personal views. And the personal views of the minority. And what have you got to support your claim your views are actually the majority view?

    Absolutely nothing except demonstrations of ignorance about how opinion polls work.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    As much as you might want to, you can't just dismiss (a consensus of) national and international polls because the results don't match your world views.

    Also, normal complaints about measures shouldn't be conflated with this illogical stance against them. I had plenty of issues with the nitty-gritty of certain measures but I understood on principle why they were there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    Wow... conspiracy theories, ignorance, deflection & smokescreens, they're up there with anti-knowledge. You sure know how to win friends 🤣

    An opinion poll of "randomly" selected strangers, who are being asked leading questions, does not speak for me, and should not be used to justify taking my basic freedoms & civil liberties away... how about you throw those words and phrases back in face now while you're at it.

    If, by your own admission, governments aren't elected by opinion polls, why should they be allowed to dictate public policy according to the results of opinion polls????

    And you're damn right I don't like the "results" of the covid opinion polls, I'll give you that much, they only helped feed into the lockdown agendas and contributed towards the suppression of my rights & freedoms.

    Oh and if you can't see the irony of you, a random stranger on the internet, calling me out for complaining about randomly selected strangers in opinion polls, you're just confirming that there's no hope for you.

    Thankfully economics and harsh reality won the covid war and we have no more restrictions... I'm so glad you're not in charge of anything more threatening than a keyboard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭DLink


    I can dismiss whatever I want, and I can pour scorn on whatever I want, especially when it comes to the farce that is / was the covid response of this country.

    The muppets in charge were burning my tax money without scrutiny, so I have every right to complain about whatever I damn please.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,703 ✭✭✭hometruths


    The opinion polls showed people were frightened, and support the measures put in place to alleviate that fear.

    The problem is the fear was based on terrifying estimates of the infection fatality rate, some were claiming it was as high as 6%.

    Anybody who questioned these estimates was demonised as a granny killer and a threat to public health for spreading misinformation.

    Hindsight shows that the IFR was nowhere near 6%.

    Fine, it's ok to be wrong with hindsight. It was a novel virus. Nobody knew for sure.

    But to turn round now and claim that people who question the longterm effect of the measures are just nitpicking with hindsight is astonishing.

    We should be learning from these mistakes, not dismissing them as nitpicking.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,521 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The support wasnt just in 2020 but on into 2021 and beyond. A preliminary IFR based on incomplete data from China was history by that point. And IFR was only ever one half of the equation yet the 'questioning' types rarely if ever mentioned that.

    To state that anybody who questioned the estimates was demonised as a granny killer is just hyperbole or attacked for spreading misinformation merely for questioning it likewise. Utterly without foundation and dismissed as such.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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