Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071992#Comment_120071992

We should all be well used to being lied to by our politicians and governments.

China is no exception.

ceadaoin.

I posted that study last week. I think its the 3rd one to show such an association. It's fingers in ears about it though. Isn't it weird how some people literally will not hear a bad word said against these vaccines. Is that what science is supposed to be, blind faith?

ceadaoin.

A study of 50,000 people - 'not good enough, dont believe it'. Bivalent vaccine tested on a handful of mice - 'grand, when can I take it?!'. Totally makes sense

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072106#Comment_120072106

Another possibility could be that the immune systems get ‘messed up’ by a cumulative effect of mRNA vaccinations, making every subsequent vaccine less and less effective and/or waning faster.

it is interesting to see that the older the cohort, the lower the effectiveness of the bivalent vaccine.

Since the bivalent mRNA was developed for a known strain of BA4/5 virus, one would expect that it’s efficacy would be in a range of 90% as such was apparently the case with the first vaccines. The argument that has been repeated at nausea by the vaccine zealots here was that vaccines were extremely effective if it was not for the virus to always changing into a new type and thus ‘dodging’ the vaccines. Such argument does not hold the water in this case as it is a BA4/5 vaccine that proves to be ineffective in preventing the very same virus strain it was developed for.

vaccine effectiveness of 30% would not pass the original criteria for covid-19 vaccine approval.

ceadaoin.

Ba 4/5 are already out of date though, in the US at least with the BQ.1 strain becoming dominant in November, and soon to be followed by XBB. They are always one step behind. Remember when mrna vaccines were great because they could be updated super fast?Another failed promise

walus

You are right, it is not just Omicron that was taken into consideration, other variants came into play in the last few weeks of the study. from that paper:

“The circulating variants of SARS-CoV-2 varied over the course of the study. The majority of infections in Ohio were caused by the BA.4 or BA.5 lineages of the Omicron variant during the first 10 weeks of the study, based on SARS-CoV-2 variant monitoring data available from the Ohio Department of Health. By December, the BQ.1, BQ.1.1, and BF.7 lineages accounted for a substantial proportion of the infections.”

However there were other publications that focused solely on the BA4/5 infections when evaluating the bivalent vaccine effectiveness and results were very much in the 20-40% range (age dependent, lower for elderly).

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072222#Comment_120072222

Your post is a gish gallop of half truths and misinformation.

I have already posted the caveats about the study - it is a preprint and has limitations which plausibly could result in confounding results given the small sample size of people who actually received the bivalent vaccine.

There is a general trend of vaccines being less effective in older groups, not just covid or mRNA vaccine related or specific to bivalent.

The original study results were based on symptomatic infections in a time of limited test capacity. This study is based on self reported positive tests which includes antigen tests and asymptomatic cases. It could just as easily be showing a trend that people who engage with boosters and also more likely to engage with testing.

Vaccine effectiveness versus infection is only one aspect of its effectiveness. The primary benefit being stated for bivalent vaccines is protection against severe covid and hospitalisation.

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072451#Comment_120072451

I presume you have a peer reviewed paper that provides clear data supporting your statement that bivalent vaccines are very effective in preventing Covid and hospitalisation?

Happy to read it

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072541#Comment_120072541

The world's leading experts e.g. the CDC have authorised it on the basis of clinical trials and studies, and that was one of their considerations.

The main point however is that it is misleading to compare the basis for approval of the initial vaccine with boosters, on multiple levels. One is that it was approved on a different basis for effectiveness. The other being that due to the high levels of vaccination and prior immunity, you were not going to match the initial results for effectiveness versus severe covid. Therefore the approval metric is not the same.

Antibody studies were used as the basis for effectiveness in conjunction with studies for earlier vaccine versions.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7148e1.htm

https://www.health.com/how-effective-bivalent-boosters-6831663

Specific studies here:

https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/providers/cdc-bivalent-vaccine-cuts-risk-covid-hospitalization-half

The bivalent COVID-19 vaccine got two thumbs-up with the release of studies by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), one of which says that the booster can cut the risk of contracting severe COVID-19 by 57%.

Another study says that the bivalent vaccine reduces the risk of hospitalization from COVID-19 for those 65 and older by 83% compared to the unvaccinated, and by 73% compared to individuals who’ve gotten at least two doses of the original monovalent vaccines.

COVID hospital numbers took another big dip today. They're definitely trending downwards.

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071956#Comment_120071956

Underinvestment are you mad. We have one of the best funded health systems per head in the world!!

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072134#Comment_120072134

There's a difference between science and "the science" .

ceadaoin.

The study authors had this to say about people who had more doses being more likely to test:

"This potential effect should be somewhat mitigated in our healthcare cohort because one needs a NAAT to get paid time off, providing a strong incentive to get a NAAT if one tested positive at home. Even if one assumes that some individuals chose not to follow up on a positive home test result with a NAAT, it is very unlikely that individuals would have chosen to pursue NAAT after receiving the bivalent vaccine more so than before receiving the vaccine, at rates disproportionate enough to affect the study’s finding"

Also, they weren't old. The participants were employees of the Cleveland clinic and the majority young and healthy. This is noted. Interesting how even people who work in healthcare mainly aren't interested in another vaccine dose huh?

jimmybobbyschweiz

Christ, the IT trying to drum up fear again. This is not "concerning", it is still Omicron. Absolute scut.

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2023/01/09/first-cases-of-concerning-new-covid-19-subvariant-detected-in-ireland/

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120073312#Comment_120073312

There is science and there is an illusion of science.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120086951#Comment_120086951

The Indo has it splashed as main story.

Time to keep getting back on with living as normal

JP Liz V1

HPSC confirm Kraken variant of Covid19 has been identified in Ireland, not sure what the symptoms of this variant are, if in doubt or nervous just mask up and hand sanitise

techdiver

Anyone know if the current booster program uses the updated vaccine or the original?

Management and GPs are back from Christmas holidays now and numbers have fell off a cliff already. COVID numbers are tiny.

A lot of panic and hysteria over nothing.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120089854#Comment_120089854

In the MVCs afaik they are using Pfizer BA.4-5 so the latest updated version.

podgeandrodge

Do the "old" antigen tests equally find the new Omnicron variants creeping in from US etc.? i.e still so close to original covid that no chance of test not seeing it?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120095747#Comment_120095747

I dont think there is much data yet re kraken

This article mentions reduced sensitivity re asymptomatic omicron

https://www.verywellhealth.com/can-rapid-tests-detect-omicron-6832866

walus

The Continuous Mortality Investigation in UK recent update states the following:

• Mortality for 2022 as a whole was 4.5% higher than 2019, but 7.8% lower than in 2020 and 2.2% lower than in 2021.
• There is a striking difference in how mortality rates in 2022 compare to 2019 at different ages – ranging from 2.5% higher for ages 75-84 to 7.8% higher for ages 20-44.
• In the UK, there have been around 155,300 more deaths from all causes than expected from the start of the pandemic to 6 January 2023. Of these, 72,900 occurred in 2020, 47,500 in 2021, and 31,000 in 2022.
• In the UK, the second half of 2022 had 26,300 excess deaths, compared to 4,700 in the first half of 2022.

https://actuaries.org.uk/news-and-media-releases/news-articles/2023/jan/17-january-23-cmi-says-2022-had-the-worst-second-half-for-mortality-since-2010/

The 7.8% for 20-44 year cohort is particularly worrying.

One must wonder what these figures for Ireland look like.

xxxxxxl

Why are they using "Kraken" it's a stupid unofficial name. Is it for Fear factor ?

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120143455#Comment_120143455

This video is worth watching as it goes through how bad the English data is - so bad it cannot be used to compare Vaxxed and Unvaxxed outcomes. The data was queried with the regulator by Norman Fenton, Martin Neil, Clare Craig and Scott McLachlan, and recently they got a reply from the regulator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-N-17_j_44

odyssey06

This BBC article gives a good summary on factors in the excess deaths.

• Covid is still killing people, but is involved in fewer deaths now than at the start of the pandemic. Roughly 38,000 deaths involved Covid in 2022 compared with more than 95,000 in 2020.
• In November, for example, it took 48 minutes on average for an ambulance in England to respond to a suspected heart attack or stroke, compared to a target of 18 minutes... On 1 January 2023, the president of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine suggested the crisis in urgent care could be causing "300-500 deaths a week".
• Some of the excess may be people whose deaths were hastened by the after-effects of a Covid infection.number of studies have found people are more likely to have heart problems and strokes in the weeks and months after catching Covid, and some of these may not end up being linked to the virus when the death is registered. As well as the impact on the heart of the virus itself, some of this may be contributed to by the fact many people didn't come in for screenings and non-urgent treatment during the peak of the pandemic, storing up trouble for the future.
• Finally, figures up to June 2022 looking at deaths from all causes show unvaccinated people were more likely to die than vaccinated people. While this data on its own can't tell us it's the vaccine protecting people from dying - there are too many complicating factors - if vaccines were driving excess deaths we would expect this to be the other way around.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-64209221

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144926#Comment_120144926

It is actually incredible that you can look at those excess deaths and try to blame long COVID and try to make some link to unvaccinated while not even mentioning all the unnecessary cancelled screenings and very urgent treatments...

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120145481#Comment_120145481

I linked an article from a highly reputable news organisation, the BBC. I have given a fair and balanced summary of the article so to suggest it is something I have come up with myself is what is incredible. And by incredible I mean completely without merit or foundation and a deliberate act of misrepesentation, if not outrightly deceptive.

Look at the post you quoted:

• Some of the excess may be people whose deaths were hastened by the after-effects of a Covid infection.number of studies have found people are more likely to have heart problems and strokes in the weeks and months after catching Covid, and some of these may not end up being linked to the virus when the death is registered. As well as the impact on the heart of the virus itself, some of this may be contributed to by the fact many people didn't come in for screenings and non-urgent treatment during the peak of the pandemic, storing up trouble for the future.

I will further link one of such studies, discussed on the vaccines thread, showing a significant increase in all cause mortality risk for post covid infections, the cohort in this group were unvaccinated given the timelines, but it clearly establishes that long covid as a plausible factor in deaths well beyond the timelines for what is classed as a covid death.

This study demonstrates patients with COVID-19 to be associated with increased risks of CVD and mortality post infection (acute phase). These risks remain increased even up till a year post recovery and are associated with long-COVID

https://academic.oup.com/cardiovascres/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cvr/cvac195/6987834

It's so lazy and yet so typical to see the mainstream media blaming COVID, long COVID and even bloody climate change on excess deaths.

Why is nobody looking at the general busyness of hospitals and concluding that maybe it is their fault for cancelling so many things over the last 3 years while they lay practically empty at some stages.

Why is nobody asking for a report on the full impact of reduced screenings and treatments?

Why is nobody questioning reduced immunity? Too many people locked up and restricted from gyms etc and now our overall health is worse.

It should be a major priority to understand why so many are dying in so many countries.

I guess deep down they have a good idea but it's easier to blame COVID and climate change.

DLink

It should be pretty obvious to a normal person that after two years (give or take a few months before any pedants try to get a dig in) of lockdowns restrictions and curtailed services that there'd be a knock on effect.

I didn't have a cold in two years (again, give or take a few months), yet I "caught a bad dose" that wasn't covid in early December that I still haven't fully shaken off.

Reduced immunity perhaps?

I'm not a boards.ie certified medical professional so I can't answer that one legally, but anecdotally I believe bugs and "bad doses" are playing catch up on us.