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N22 - Macroom to Ballyvourney (Macroom Bypass) [open to traffic]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Apart from the other issues you mentioned, the issue of entering at an angle hadn't occurred to me. Personally, I have limited neck rotation and have to adjust my vehicle orientation to ensure I can see to my right at such junctions. I've two choices, use my mirrors to merge from a merging lane, or if there is no merging lane stop with my vehicle at 90° to the road I'm joining and quickly apply full left lock when taking off.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    personally i prefer to use my mirrors for merging because there is less of a blind spot, but there is the OP that bad drivers are bad drivers, but bad drivers in a bad junction is a dangerous recipe.

    There is a small merging lane onto the south link inbound where cars frequently get to the end of the short merging lane and have to stop, traffic volumes are a different level but

    I can see the junction being an issue, i travel the road a small bit but havent been on it yet.

    Also its not just the entrance to the new road that could cause problems, the exit could be problematic, lead to late breaking, confusion, drastic lane changing and exiting at high speeds



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 197 ✭✭arsebiscuits82


    Been using the junction since the day it opened both directions and haven't had or seen an issue yet. The traffic volume on the road is small enough in reality.

    It's not like joining onto the M50!

    9 times out of 10 the traffic approaching move out to the passing lane once they see a vehicle at the junction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    I would have said 9 out of 10 don't move over, that road must have an exceptionally high proportion of courteous drivers.

    IMHO the majority of Irish drivers seem to have a box 'em in mentality when it comes to merging traffic or drivers indicating to move to the overtaking lane to get past slower traffic, a sort of this is my lane stay away thinking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭yannakis


    Love how most of the replies to the compact junction layout are focusing on how drivers on the N22 could or should fix errors from drivers merging.. instead of looking at issue itself.

    People who will be familiar with the junction will learn how to stop when merging and to anticipate a lane change when travelling on N22. Everyone else will be either oblivious or confused.

    If the same mistake keeps happening, the road design is flawed. In my opinion, at this particular junction, the Stop sign will be missed over and over because it's placed on a shallow curve where drivers are expected to be looking diagonally over their right shoulder for oncoming traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    While I'm not entirely in favour of the compact junction layout the question has to be whether there is enough signage on the junctions and the approaches to them so that drivers know what's coming and how they should behave. Unfortunately Google Maps doesn't have a street view of the junctions yet so I can't tell what is or isn't present.

    There comes a certain point where we can't (or shouldn't attempt to) design out every possible thing that drivers could do and assume that if you are in charge of a vehicle that can travel at speed you have a responsibility to know how to read the road signage and behave appropriately according to the rules of the road. I know that's probably wishful thinking but it does frustrate me that driver responsibility is far too often ignored in favour of trying to design out stupidity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭cantalach


    I used the new junction the other day to enter the N22 eastbound from the Millstreet Road. Pains me to be so critical, but the compact junction implementation there seems poor to me. It is a certainty that people will drive through that Stop sign without looking. Its positioning means that it is easily missed. I was surprised too how long I was waiting at the Stop sign for a usable gap in the slow lane, thanks to a little bunch of 4 cars in the slow lane, none of whom moved over to the fast lane to let me join (as is their prerogative). I’ll be surprised if there isn’t a significant rethink at that junction within a few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭cantalach


    I would have said something similar having driven the bypass a few times…until I actually used the junction the other day. If I can borrow lingo from another branch of engineering, even a good design pattern can have a poor implementation, and I think that is the case here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    We passed over that rubicon many moons ago. Just look at modern vehicles with auto dipping headlights, auto wipers, lane divergence warnings, auto braking, etc., etc., etc. Stupidity has now long been designed out which is why the capability of driving properly is being steadily eroded away among the general population.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    thanks to a little bunch of 4 cars in the slow lane, none of whom moved over to the fast lane to let me join (as is their prerogative)

    It's not really their prerogative, it's a display of bad driving without consideration for other road users.

    Being a regular driver in other countries I'm always disappointed by the 'box 'em in' attitude of most drivers here, moving across to the next lane to allow other drivers to merge or momentarily easing off on the throttle to allow a vehicle ahead to overtake a slower vehicle seems to be a no-no here but is commonplace elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 761 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    Yeah, that can happen all right.

    For example I would say this describes the implementation of the whole 2+1 road type in Ireland. Ideally 2+1 roads would have been a great solution for many less busy mainline routes but having driven the N24 implementation many times it was and still is one of the most appalling roads to drive and based on those the whole concept has been dropped.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    2+1 section on the Cork - mallow road probably the most anger inducing section of road I can think of.

    People will do 80kph on the single section but will suddenly jump to 110kph on the 2 lane sections, especially if they think you might want to overtake.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    If it’s any consolation, it’s not deliberate. The narrow 1-lane sections cause people to slow down because there’s a hard barrier to their right, even though the limit is 100; when the road opens up, the drivers resume their “free speed” which may be above the posted limit.

    The same principle is used to reduce traffic speed around junction complexes without having to post a lower speed limit for a short distance. Since this recent change to Carrol’s Cross on N25 (N25 - Google Maps) pretty much every car now travels through here at around 80 km/h, even though a 100 km/h speed limit still applies.

    (Before the re-works, this was a really dangerous set of junctions, with through-traffic regularly shooting through at over 100 km/h)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    That little section of the N25 is a shocking mess of minor junctions. Kilmacthomas bypass to the Luffany roundabout at the start of the Waterford bypass should be 2+2 and that little bit there should probably all be tacked onto one roundabout on the mainline.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭dmeehan


    Since this part of the Macroom bypass has opened I have driven from Killarney to Dublin twice going via Cork. I guess it is a longer drive, I'm not even 100% sure if it is quicker but I just can't face the holdups in Abbeyfeale, Newcastlewest and Adare. This will become a much better option once the Ballyvourney section and the Dunkettle junction works are completed.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭atahuapla


    What's the schedule for the remaining sections of this project? http://www.n22bbm.ie/ says the 22km stretch will be "completed by mid 2023"

    Is that still accurate or achievable?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    From killarney id sooner go via fermoy even with the ghastly N72. If times not a problem fair enough



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Christ I’d be amazed. Seems to be really getting close to completion now with the tricky bits west of the Bohill bridge almost done.

    If I were to guess I’d say Q2 for Macroom-Ballyvourney and Q3 for the section around Ballyvourney



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Further upthread there was someone saying the opposite... Ballyvourney bypass possibly first (June/July) followed by the middle bit. But most likely the rest of it at once.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35 RockCastle


    The road looks in good shape overall in the video, add 5 - 6 months to this and you would think another section of it will be ready to open. The video stops before it gets to the temporary roundabout at the western end of the Macroom section but it looks like they have a good stretch of this tarmacked from passing.


    Hat tip to Ed O'Sullivan for posting on YouTube.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    No disrespect to Ballyvourney residents but I was also looking forward to this being my last winter passing through the town!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 568 ✭✭✭EarWig


    I'd take the new route and then return to the Abbey Hotel. I always found that to be an excellent place to stop for food.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Finally used the new bypass today, after having planned to do it Day 1 and life getting in the way.

    What a nice piece of road. Wasn't as scenic as expected but was very functional with a good surface.


    The only thing I will say: My return journey, Killarney - Cork was at night. And just here -> https://goo.gl/maps/BnDgCoU8sB2NSmci7 you'll see a minor road just off the eastbound carriageway which is newly built, joining two other minor roads east/west. With the dip in the N22 eastbound at that point, everything lines up almost perfectly such that a car travelling westbound on that minor road looks like it is driving westbound along the eastbound N22 carriageway. Nearly gave me a heart attack!


    The other thing I will say is that I thought people were being less stupid with the overtaking coming into Ballyvourney from the west, or going along around Ovens, because there is now 9km of overtaking opportunity and less need to get around a slow lorry.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    The only thing I will say: My return journey, Killarney - Cork was at night. And just here -> https://goo.gl/maps/BnDgCoU8sB2NSmci7 you'll see a minor road just off the eastbound carriageway which is newly built, joining two other minor roads east/west. With the dip in the N22 eastbound at that point, everything lines up almost perfectly such that a car travelling westbound on that minor road looks like it is driving westbound along the eastbound N22 carriageway. Nearly gave me a heart attack!

    Same! This has caught me out on more than one occasion, quite jarring.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭cargo


    Would a few sections of noise barrier cover off the lights on that section?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭dmeehan


    TLDR: Temporary traffic management is currently in place which will be adjusted significantly on Tuesday 7th February 2023, with a temporary speed limit of 60km/h in operation. Existing N22 traffic will be diverted onto a diversion road, to facilitate road construction works on the new N22 road. These roadworks, including the traffic diversion, will be on-going at this location until Sept. 2023.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The home stretch now. I hope DroneHawk is floating around the area soon to see what's going on around there.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    On a somewhat bemusing note, at 2:40 in the video, you can see a car going around and around the roundabout!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    How the hell did you spot that... it's you isn't it?

    Have to say macroom itself is a different town now, dont have to clock watch for a time to go in or sit in traffic, it also seems like the guards are driving up and down a lot more, if it takes 2 minutes to do a drive around as opposed to 20 minutes before, i might be imagining that though.

    When is the other section due to open?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Report in the Examiner on the effects of the bypass on passing trade. Mentions that "it is due to be completed by the first quarter of 2024."




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    It will be made up for by locals, or people specifically diverting to go to the town. This is what has happened in every other town that has been bypassed.

    “Passing trade” really applies only to people on foot. If you’re driving a long distance, you’ve already decided on where you’re going to stop to eat before you set out. And heavy traffic through a town actually discourages people from stopping there, because it will makes it harder to get back on the road afterwards.

    If we’re heading further west than Kenmare on a holiday, we usually stop in to the Mills in Baile Bhuirne for lunch. When the new road opens, I’ll do the same - it’ll be much nicer without the traffic streaming past the window.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    The parking in the shop in Ballyvourney is quite awkward between the limited spaces, strangers not following the usual parking setup and the busyness of the road. It’ll be much easier post road opening

    One serious group the businesses in Ballyvourney will miss is the workers themselves. They made good use of that deli the last few years



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I know you both will only visit Ballyvourney for Shani Kebab House, under the guise of "shop" or "mills" visit. Own up.

    Seriously though, the towns will actually become proper towns again. It might take a few years (Fermoy as an example) but trade will become much better and people will properly visit the town.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35 RockCastle


    I see Michael Creed is saying July for the road opening of the second section as far as Toonlane and the Autumn for the final section. Good news indeed!!



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Can anyone confirm that this temporary new layout is in effect at the Western end, as OSM seems to indicate?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭Salvadoor


    Yes it is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,753 ✭✭✭KrisW1001



    That’s not a temporary layout, btw - those two roundabouts are permanent, and will be part of the junction for Baile Bhuirne.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Ah the memories, Colthurst Bridge!, I can remember heading up that road back in the early 1970s before the current road from there to Killarney was built. If you drive it today you can still see the remnants of the continuous white line and the cat's eyes in places.

    And, not forgetting the old bridge over The Flesk at Cloghane, now the L7068



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    I saw that article myself and thought about posting it here, but when I read it and saw how idiotic it was, I decided not to.

    Local councillor proving, yet again, how poor our local government is in this country. Who the hell votes for these people?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20 johnfrank1967


    There should have been a slip on and off from the word go that was a no brainer. The millstreet junction is a disaster, a national school class could have designed that one better.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,058 ✭✭✭niloc1951


    Idiot, Trucks from Killarney would be using the N22 the whole way. Trucks from Castletownbere would be on the R584 or R585 (Ballingeary route) neither of which join the N22 until east of Macroom.



  • Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭BagofWeed


    Grand road, 1st time I drove it today and was very impressed by it. The Kilgarvan turn onto the N22 at Loo's Cross struck me as being very dangerous, only 2nd time ever on it earlier. But a lot of traffic was turning on and off the N22 there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭smokie72


    It can be a bit hairy if you are heading towards Cork and have to turn right at the junction (R569). Even turning left towards Glenflesk and Killarney have to deal with fast traffic sometimes coming from the Cork side. A lot of traffic to and from Kenmare especially during tourist season. Would a roundabout at that junction make it better?



  • Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭BagofWeed


    Yea that's the movement I had to make and the R569 bound traffic was building up in their right turn lane but that was blocking my view of traffic going towards Cork so it was hairy ok. A roundabout would be a good idea as I can only imagine it during the tourist season with a lot of buses turning. Yea the N22 there is very fast moving too.

    Post edited by BagofWeed on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    ...and that junction is, and will be, a lot busier in future as going to a lot of west Cork will be quickest via the bypass and Kilgarvan, rather than the N71 or N22 and Crookstown to Bantry.



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