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Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    The slip is gone, but the turning lane is still there.

    The thinking is that cars don't slow down for slip lanes, so they are more dangerous for old people and children.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "The thinking is that cars don't slow down for slip lanes, so they are more dangerous for old people and children."

    Yes, plus with the old design a pedestrian had to cross 3 sets of traffic lights, now it will be just one set of lights.

    The old design was very anti pedestrian/cyclist design, with needing to cross so many sets of lights.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Looks like this now (well November 2022):




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,326 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    There's the wider issue of bus lane enforcement which should have been tackled years ago.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,301 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Yeah, that's it, still the same layout now. Looks a bit different for those still expecting a slip road, but I think the plan is to phase them out everywhere but motorways? I might be imagining that actually, but I wouldn't be surprised. I didn't realise how unsafe they were until someone pointed out to me that you've got to look in the opposite direction to where you're travelling. People taking them at speed either won't see what's coming on the road behind them, or see what's in front of them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,390 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    So they just got rid of the shortcut lane that ran through what is now the pavement.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    What they've done also means that left-turning traffic will be moving ore slowly and carefully.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,390 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Good point, that old short cut road was like a Grand Prix circuit at times.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,618 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    There are cones blocking the Bus Lane for some reason.

    I'm unsure why they are there, bit its causing traffic to back up as people are jumping into the buss lane far back assuming they'll be able to turn left maybe? (I don't know how long they've been there)

    That's why i though the filter lane was gone

    Something else weird is happening though on the new Junction.

    Cars are stopping at the Red X instead of the Green X (maybe it's not finished?)

    The can see the filter light then at the blue arrow and assume that the light is green to turn left when its not.

    I understand why they got rid of the island and the left hand slip way. Cyclists dont want to stop twice

    Ill take a pic tomorrow



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,814 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I assume the issue is that there is now less green light time turning left onto ABR as such traffic has to wait for two pedestrian crossing sequences (1 x north/south and 1 x east/west) whereas previously it was one (across the slip lane itself). The reduced green time sees traffic backing up beyond the turn off lane and people sit in the bus lane until they can get into the turn off lane, instead of waiting in the general driving lane.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "Cars are stopping at the Red X instead of the Green X (maybe it's not finished?)

    The can see the filter light then at the blue arrow and assume that the light is green to turn left when its not.

    I understand why they got rid of the island and the left hand slip way. Cyclists dont want to stop twice

    Ill take a pic tomorrow"

    Yes, I haven't been down there since December, so I'd assume/hope it is just that the works haven't finished yet and the light sequences aren't all properly set up yet.

    You are right, cars should never be stopped at the red x, that should be a yellow junction box there. If that persists after the works complete, then it definitely needs to be fixed, perhaps with adjustments to traffic light times and perhaps it would make it safer if they also put a traffic light at X so any cars who stop there can see when cars are supposed to pass.

    "I assume the issue is that there is now less green light time turning left onto ABR as such traffic has to wait for two pedestrian crossing sequences (1 x north/south and 1 x east/west) whereas previously it was one (across the slip lane itself). The reduced green time sees traffic backing up beyond the turn off lane and people sit in the bus lane until they can get into the turn off lane, instead of waiting in the general driving lane."

    You could maybe resolve that by having the two sets of pedestrian lights go red at the same time, that would fundamentally mean a left turning car really is only crossing one set of lights. Of course the obvious issue is the folk rushing a red light at the green x above and then getting stuck at the red x as people have already started crossing there. It does seem dangerous if the timing of the lights aren't properly sorted.

    BTW even though there was previously only one light at the slip, there was also a Yield sign before entering ABR, so cars would often have to stop twice on the slip anyway.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,301 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    There are cones blocking the Bus Lane for some reason.

    I'm unsure why they are there, bit its causing traffic to back up as people are jumping into the buss lane far back assuming they'll be able to turn left maybe? (I don't know how long they've been there)

    That's why i though the filter lane was gone

    Yeah, that's what I thought as soon as you said it. DCCs traffic department are usually pretty conservative when it comes to traffic restrictions at building sites, and this is just another example of it. The idea is to "calm" the traffic before it can put anyone working on the site in danger. It does indeed work, but at this stage, with the junction mostly complete, I'm not sure if it's still necessary. DCC though, they'll probably won't take it out until the full works are finished, that's how conservative they are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    What they need to install there is a division between the bus Lane and general lane. I’m not a fan of bollards, but they work in certain instances.

    Similar to the approach at Whitehall Church which keeps the cars out of the bus lane while they queue to make the left turn.



  • Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭Sir Galahad


    So DCC have decided without planning permission to put a chicane in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Is there a particular reason or rationale that saw them put in a one-way cycle lane instead of a two-way cycle lane for this project?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I haven't looked it up, maybe someone else knows. One area of difficulty I can think of is the rail bridge outside Clontarf DART station. I don't think there would be space there for a footpath, two way cycle lane, bus lane and traffic lane under the bridge arch. It is already tight as it is. I'd guess they'd have to do major reconstruction work on the bridge in order to fit it in.

    A real pity, a two way cycle lane along Fairview Park would have been lovely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,618 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Seems like a crap solution.

    I don't believe their data either.

    The Buses are getting through faster because less people are heading into town via Fairview, not because they've put cones on the road that block buses as well as cars.

    I actually cannot remember the last time I drove into town, even on the Motorcycle now that I think of it. It's easily over 2 months ago anyway.

    So the no cars thing is definitely deterring people, I'm lucky I live on the rail line though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,399 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    If you avoid the morning rush and the Fairview pinch point, driving into/out of town takes the same time as before the roadworks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,651 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    The whole area in and around Alfie Byrne road/Clontarf dart station is an unholy mess for motorists and cyclists too...

    The last time I commuted by car through Fairview was during the pandemic years, wouldn't attempt it now either in a car or on a bicycle if you paid me, and very reluctantly would use a slow overcrowded Dublin bus... The whole area all the way from Alfie Byrne to Connolly Station is a building site where cars/busses/bicycles all struggle to get through...



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's even a pain for pedestrians being honest.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    I've no issues on the bike to be honest. And it's actually an enjoyable cycle along the park, inbound.

    I don't go through the park anymore, as it's not easy to get back on the road once you reach the Tolka.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,651 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    The whole project is an example of trying to appease everyone, and at the same time pleasing no one who lives/works/travels by foot/car/bus/bike through that area...


    I can see the cycle lanes becoming congested at peak times like the ones over on the Grand Canal area where if you're travelling west bound in the mornings as everyone heads eastwards towards the city then it's like trying to face a load of roman chariots heading directly for you!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    If that's what it ends up being, then that is a massive success. Hundreds and thousands of extra people staying fit, no damage to the environment, safely cycling in and out of the city from the Northside who never did before because of the death trap that it used to be.

    Also, don't forget, this cycle lane is not a two way, but one on either side of the road. I'm sure some "Tour de France" cyclists might be delayed behind some slower ones, but that's not the end of the world. They are a bit like the crazy drivers doing mad overtakes on a country road, only to be caught up a kilometre away in the next village.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,814 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I'm sure it will be very busy at certain times but that would be a sign of success. The load should get spread somewhat which should help, people using ABR to get to Eastpoint/the Point area, using the Royal Canal to get to Docklands and going all the way to the end to get to the more traditional city centre



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,389 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    As a cyclist I 100% prefer a Canal style cycle path than sharing a bus lane. I'll take the slower commute for the comfort and safety. We're not expecting a cycling dual carriageway for overtaking



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,651 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    We'll see! There's plenty of people just out for a leisurely cycle, there's commuters who want to get to their destinations quickly, and people on destricted eBikes that can do 40kph+



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,921 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It's going to look great once completed but I'd be sticking to the roads from early autumn until spring. The stretch from Westwood to annesley bridge will be lethal with fallen leaves during this time and let's be honest it's not going to be cleaned.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,814 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    The council deal with the leaves there anyway, I'm sure they'll remove them from the cycle lane too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    They don't do much for the leaves on Griffith Avenue, so I wouldn't hold out much hope.



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