Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121727472#Comment_121727472

Yes, I believe that the entire road surface, from clontarf to city centre, is still unfinished. It'll need to be raised about two inches once all the work is finished.

You can see it clearly at the new drains along the route, the drains have vertical bars to stop debris from entering the drain, but there's a huge gap between the end of the bar and the road surface, making them totally useless for now.

That work should bring the road level with the cycle path, which will reduce the rollercoaster feeling.

Citizen Six

So I had a head on collision in Fairview, with an electric scooter. At the dangerous bend by the foot bridge. I spotted him, and braked, but he was travelling outbound, on the right hand side, so no way to avoid someone that was travelling inbound on the left of the path. Injured my arm, but both lucky that it wasn't worse. I spotted him as he came into view where the yellow X is, and collision happened when the blue X is.

Further along in North Strand, usual van blocking the footpath by the shop/post office/pharmacy. Woman stepped into the cycle lane to get past, without looking, and almost got taken out by two bikes. Unusually, the loading bay on Bessborough Avenue was free, so that could have been used by the van.

And who thought the best place for a electrical junction box was on a dangerous bend?

In other news, I spoke with engineers from Clonmel Enterprises and DCC today. From March, they are trialing some methods to protect the lane at Westwood, restricting outbound traffic turning right into Westwood. They also said the contractor would be making the temporary surface better. But I'll believe that when I see it. It really is in a bad state outbound for cyclists.

loyatemu

sorry to hear about your accident - people "salmoning" in the wrong direction is one of the reasons i prefer 2-way paths. It's somewhat inevitable on a road like Fairview where it's difficult to cross to the other side to use the correct direction (particularly if your only going a short distance up the road).

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121704858#Comment_121704858

5 cyclists just need to surround that car for a good half an hour and disrupt them to send a message

MarkN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734636#Comment_121734636

If that forces motorists to jam up the right turn after the arches, that will be an even bigger mess. Westwood should’ve been made sort a bigger car park with better access as part of their business going forward to be honest.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734935#Comment_121734935

Yeah, it's common at the moment, due to the state of the outbound road. But if you are travelling in the wrong direction, at least be on the left hand side to avoid possible collisions! I'm with you on the 2 way paths. Easier to overtake as well.

loyatemu

yeah, stay left seems obvious, but then you have the council putting in sections of 2-way path where you're supposed to keep right just to confuse people. Also scooterists, in my experience, haven't a clue.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121712880#Comment_121712880

Just so people are aware, this bloke is a total plonker. Ignore him.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734636#Comment_121734636

funny that, cycling back from gym at lunchtime, just before your spot there a really fast e-scooter brushed past me by about 6 inches, not good.

westwood is a constant mess and holds up buses. it's really unfair on those travelling by bus to have to put up with this because of people wanting to use a bloody gym. i hope they sort it out sooner or later.

MarkN

Kids also learn to swim there from all over north Dublin and driving is one of the only options. It also hosts parties for kids. And well, being in the gym helps keep people out of hospital. There should be another entrance however.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735678#Comment_121735678

Kids also learn to swim there from all over north Dublin and driving is one of the only options. It also hosts parties for kids.

and what???

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735678#Comment_121735678

Cycling and getting PT to the gym also keeps folk out of hospital.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735678#Comment_121735678

Perhaps Westwood could sort out driving lessons for the parents while their kids are learning to swim. People think that it’s okay to queue in a bus lane to turn left. If we had a proper police force, they could reeducate them.

There are also plenty of nearby housing estates that they could park and have a short walk. And yes, I know walking and crossing roads with little people is a pain but that doesn’t give anyone the right to block a bus lane, cycle path or footpath.

bikeman1

Westwood should be warned that they are in breach of their planning if they can’t manage their car park properly that they will tell them that they have to remove the carpark and it can only be used for blue badge, bikes and drop off only.

Also can we not slap a big yellow box all over that area outside on that path and bike lane.

WW is right on 3 main bus corridors and at the DART station, including the orbital N4 and soon to be great bike lanes. There is literally no reason to drive there.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737237#Comment_121737237

DCC engineer said there will be section of the lane painted before everything f is finished, such as red sections at bus passenger crossing points. So yellow box outside Westwood is a good idea. Unlikely to be obeyed I’d imagine.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737268#Comment_121737268

They seem to be considering every option instead of the Gardai doing their job.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737699#Comment_121737699

The gardai hardly have capacity to manage every yellow box junction in Ireland. If it was a junction with a Luas line or a junction of two major bus routes, then yes they should, but it's an entrance to a gym. I don't think the guards give a damn and you can hardly blame them.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735678#Comment_121735678

I've brought my kids to swimming lessons in WW. I parked in the overflow, didn't block the bus lane, and walked the 60 - 120 seconds it takes to stroll from there to the gym, walking by countless cars blocking the path and road with drivers sitting behind the wheel glued to their phones while going absolutely nowhere and causing havoc for everyone else.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737726#Comment_121737726

They should create a booking system or gold pass for parking in the main parking area with a much higher level of accessibility parking spaces. If fit and able bodied people can't take public transport or simply walk those other extra 2minutes from the overflow, or God forbid actually walk or cycle to the gym, then there's no hope for us!!

With all the improvements happening around the city, the area that is considered "city" will massively expand. There might be a psychological change there where people won't expect to be able to drive to Westwood. Let's hope.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735678#Comment_121735678

I have cycled there with my 6 year old (also cycling) for swimming lessons.

There is also like half a dozen bus routes within 3 minutes walk of there and the DART!

Also there are plenty of other pools around North Dublin that do kids swimming lessons.

Frank Bullitt

There have been some traffic measurement boxes around Marino the past 2 months, I wonder are they related to the work in Fairview? Anecdotally, I have seen a lot more traffic go through Marino while I have been home, some are really wild with the speed they go.

Yeah Right

Issue with the DART this morning, couple of trains emptied at Clontarf and everyone walking to Fairview to get the bus instead. Busy enough on the new footpath through the park, so one sap decides to walk along the new cycle path and, of course, all the lemmings follow. Carnage at the end of the Malahide Road as bikes are joining the path which is full of dopes looking back towards Clontarf to see if a bus is coming.

No matter how foolproof you make something, there'll always be a bigger fool.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738813#Comment_121738813

i thought no one cycled in the rain?

Unfortunately still see idiots flying along on their bikes on the path - ignoring the new cycle lane less than a foot away. Add to them breaking red lights, as well as the cars doing the same (and driving on paths!) and it’s hard to see how anything is used properly.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734636#Comment_121734636

I agree that the design of that part of the cycle lane is an absolute mess, it's a danger to everyone who uses it, and i'm surprised there's not more accidents there... The best way to have designed it would be to remove that tree and align the section past the footbridge... There's many who use that cycle lane as a two way lane and i don't blame them for it... And the reason why it's not properly designed by removal of the trees? chronic nimbyism! And by the same locals who will tell you the area is a mess..

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740535#Comment_121740535

I’d hate to see more trees go myself. And I know the design team faced a lot of opposition to having any of them chopped. Engineers seemed oblivious to the idea that it’s a danger spot when I mentioned it to them.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741852#Comment_121741852

In an ideal world, they would be correct, as people should only be going in the correct direction and thus there shouldn’t be an issue.

However that ignores human nature and so called desire paths. Hopefully people will stop going the wrong way when the outbound side is complete, however I fear that many will prefer to be on this side and continue to use it wrongly.

That is why I wish they had designed it as a two way cycle path, they would have had to design for this then and it would have made for a higher quality cycle path. I hope they learn from these mistakes, but then they haven’t from the mess up on Griffith Avenue either.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741852#Comment_121741852

Trees regrow, and the whole debacle over residents almost chaining themselves to a bunch of trees has meant that what's built there now is a massive compromise on what the engineers/designers would have wanted... the safety issue at the footbridge being prime example and the fact that many people are using it as a two way lane...

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121742203#Comment_121742203

I thought it had come out that most of the people campaigning for retention of the trees weren't local, with most of them living on the Southside of the city? Or am I misremembering it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121741889#Comment_121741889

The outbound side was a nightmare for cyclists for years. The section from the optometrists to the footbridge was an absolute death trap; the perfect combination of crappy painted cycle lane, idiots swerving in last minute, more idiots opening their doors into the cycle lane without watching for cyclists, slower cyclists who insist on mounting the path to get in front of the queue only to hold everyone else up cos there's no room to overtake (only to repeat the process at the next set of lights which you were only stopped at because you couldn't overtake the slow fecker earlier) buses and taxis pulling in without checking, saps wandering into traffic on match days, crushed plastic pint glasses everywhere on a Monday morning after matches, lazy pricks legging it across the road instead of using the footbridge, schoolkids jostling at the bus stops.......

If I'm going any further than the Malahide Road turnoff, I used to go through the park (especially if I got caught at the lights at the Fire Brigade station on the Nth Strand/Annesley Bridge). I don't blame anyone for using the lane on the park side of the road, the other side is like a meat grinder nightmare.

Nah chopping down more mature trees because people don’t know how to use a cycle lane is not the answer. I’m sure they’ll figure it out in due course.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735154#Comment_121735154

As far as I am concerned this area is now a "no go" if you are going by car. I was going to a match in Croke Park recently. Instead of going Howth Road to Fairview. I naively said to myself sure Clontarf way might be as good or better.

There was a "stop/go" system at Westwood no movement. Really backed up for ages, people doing u-turns because of it. I did the same myself. Went the East Wall way, but everyone else had the same idea. Barely made the match on time, even though there was a much smaller crowd than normal.

Also given the nature of the roadworks it is an extremely dangerous area for the elderly infirm or disabled, uneven paths, cones, dug up ground. A real "war zone" feel to it. Those with businesses in the area must be driven demented as well.

I hope all this building work will be worth it in the end and it, but at the moment the area is a disaster to travel through. They might as well ban cars altogether from that stretch of road given the congestion/roadworks it is pointless.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744720#Comment_121744720

the outbound section in fairview, from where fairview grill is to the malahide road, has had basically no progress from what i can see, it's just dug up and exposed pipes. taking forever.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121744611#Comment_121744611

They cut down trees and people don't even notice. It's just something people latch on to as an excuse for zero improvement to the area.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121748474#Comment_121748474

Nah, it's an improvement for people passing through an area. Those who actually live there might actually enjoy having a few trees in their local area. I remember when they were building the port tunnel and as part of it they commandeered a large section of Fairview Park. They even knocked down the changing rooms under the pretense that new ones would be built. Yeah, that never happened.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121748806#Comment_121748806

Both can be true. Trees are absolutely important for the city but they are also used as stalking horse for people objecting to a project. Trees are cut down across the city all the time for various reasons but you generally only hear people complaining about it when they are objecting to a housing or transport project.

Pete_Cavan

People cycling in the wrong direction on a cycle lane isn't a design flaw. The issue really is that the outbound cycle lane isn't available yet. Once it is, people should use that, choosing not to do so is abusing the facility and making what should be a safe space dangerous for everyone.

I don't think two-way cycle lanes on the Park side would have worked as most people joining/leaving the cycle lanes will do so on the other side of the road. Two way cycle lanes could have worked on the other (i.e. outbound) side. To do that, it could have been left as one general traffic lane outbound instead of having a second from Annesley Bridge. It would be possible as the library on Marino Mart at least.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749118#Comment_121749118

Hard disagree, cyclists have no problem crossing the road to get to a more pleasant and high quality cycle lane. After all people do it all the time on the Clontarf to Howth cycle lane, which is a major success. Plus such cyclists have to cross the road regardless with the current one way cycle lane!

It would be pretty silly to suggest that the Howth cycle lane was built on the other side next to the houses and business of Clontarf rather than the more attractive sea side.

The Fairview park side is certainly more attractive to any cyclist. A two way cycle lane on the other side would be a mess with far more interactions with pedestrians on the narrow footpath, coming and going from shops, buses, plus there are a number of extra road junctions on that side which don’t exist on the park side.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121748806#Comment_121748806

new ones were built, no?

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749951#Comment_121749951

No, there’s a small compound there now for park staff. They never replaced the large changing room area that was there before the works.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749994#Comment_121749994

i think you're wrong, the big building opposite st joseph's is changing rooms as far as I know

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749994#Comment_121749994

I can't remember old changing rooms to be honest. But I didn't live in the area until after the port tunnel was built. As mentioned, didn't they build new changing areas?

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121749424#Comment_121749424

You disagree that people shouldn't be cycling in the wrong direction on a single direction cycle lane!?

Having cycle lanes in both directions on the outbound side would facilitate local trips from homes to shops, cafes, school, etc. and back all on the same side of the road. If both cycle lanes were on the other side, such journeys would be less attractive by bike. Such journeys are the "low hanging fruit" in terms of getting people onto bikes. Longer journeys such as commutes to/from the city centre would require switching to the other side of the road in one direction regardless of which side the cycle lanes are.

Ideally, in the not too distant future, the second outbound lane would be removed between Annesley Bridge and the library on Marino Mart (the left turn lane for Malahide Road would be retained), i.e. the right-most driving lane reaims, the left-most driving lane becomes the bus lane and the bus lane becomes cycle/pedestrian space. That would allow for cycle lanes in both directions for that stretch, with the inbound cycle lane remaining on the other side. It would be quite easy/cheap to do and would also allow for an increase in width in front of the businesses on Marino Mart.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751436#Comment_121751436

You disagree that people shouldn't be cycling in the wrong direction on a single direction cycle lane!?

How are people to know whether part of a of cycle lane is one way or two?

What about someone sitting in Fairview Park having cycled there from Clontarf - are they expected to cross the road at either Annesley Br or over the metal bridge (depending on where they are in the park)?

I'm not justifying travelling in the wrong direction but if we design ambiguous routes then don't be surprised when people use them any which way.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751533#Comment_121751533

i'd cycle on the shared path to the westwood end of the park and use the pedestrian crossing there

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121751533#Comment_121751533

I'm not sure of the legal standing of them but there are markings on the cycle lane which indicate the direction of travel. There may be additional signage also, either now or added later. Is there really ambiguity? Even if there is currently some ambiguity (possible due to lack of an outbound cycle lane), a few signs when the outbound cycle lane is open would remove that.

Why on earth would anyone cross the road at either Annesley Br or over the metal bridge if going from Fairview Park to Clontarf? There is provision for cyclists to cross from the Park to the other side of the road at Fairview Strand, Joey's and Malahide Road (in addition to at the Fairview/clontarf side of Annesley Br) as part of what is currently being built.

Of course it would be great to be able to cycle from anywhere to anywhere else without crossing a road but that isn't realistic. Two cycle lanes on the Park side would have caused more problems (in terms of objections, etc.), if not been outright impossible, due to encroaching on the Park and passing under the railway bridge arches. What I am saying is that two cycle lanes could be/have been created outbound between Annesley Bridge and Joey's by removing the second driving lane which isn't really necessary.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121750062#Comment_121750062

Yes it is, and far superior to the old ones.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121748474#Comment_121748474

https://twitter.com/daveirl/status/1757054317658259663

Different when it's roads

Seth Brundle

I see an article on the RTE website claims that the pedestrian and bicycle entrances to Fairview Park are enabling scumbag pricks on motorbikes to get in and subsequently tear up the football pitches...

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2024/0212/1431847-sheriff-yc/

Will there soon be calls to put barriers at the access points?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760149#Comment_121760149

They've already put big concrete barriers up in parts to keep cars out, I can't see them putting those horrible bike and wheelchair blocker things up surely not

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760149#Comment_121760149

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760238#Comment_121760238

This has been going on for years, with both DCC and the Gardai turning a blind eye to it.

Gardai don't even bother responding to calls when it's happening. It's barely on their radar.