Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

p_haugh · 10-01-2023 03:57PM

Seen this on twitter, stop 619 on Amiens street back in use for the past month or so. Kerbing looking very well too.

https://twitter.com/gavinjdaly/status/1612771169995833344?t=PJrdUBCSAdPoFa56V1l4Zg&s=19

Seth Brundle · 10-01-2023 04:05PM

Looking good. So how long before the utility companies dig it up?

bk · 10-01-2023 04:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120088851#Comment_120088851

Just a general comment, but a two way cycle lane on one side of the road generally takes up the same or potentially even less space then two single way cycle lanes on both sides of the same road.

Such two way cycle lanes allow for wider bikes and overtaking and are generally much safer, while really having no impact on drivers (as they take up no more space).

For instance there is absolutely no reason why the new cycle lane up on Griffith Avenue couldn't be a two way cycle lane on one side of the road, it would have given us a much better design.

LXFlyer · 10-01-2023 05:02PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120090330#Comment_120090330

Stop 619 actually!

It has been back in operation since November.

Pete_Cavan · 10-01-2023 05:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120090330#Comment_120090330

No crossing light poles at the crossing points nor can I see provision for them, has sense prevailed?

p_haugh · 10-01-2023 05:25PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120090648#Comment_120090648

Yep, I knew in my head it was 619 from looking it up, but evidently put down 620 instead. 😂

p_haugh · 10-01-2023 05:29PM

No crossing light poles at the crossing points nor can I see provision for them, has sense prevailed?

The third photo from that tweet shows that the holder for a pole is in place beside the crossing point, so provisions for lights seem to be in place

Shedite27 · 11-01-2023 11:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120090604#Comment_120090604

Yeah that's true, cyclists use the other side for overtaking from Clontarf to Sutton and that works well. I suppose the only drawback would be having to cross the road one way or another, but you're right, in hindsight, continuing the two way into Clontarf into Connolly would have been a good idea for overtaking cyclists

Duckjob · 13-01-2023 11:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120090604#Comment_120090604

2 way cycle paths make even more sense on coastal roads or even roads where most of the turnoffs are on one side (and the 2 way goes on the other side). Despite the rubbish surface quality on parts of the Sutton Clontarf cycleway, I do love how you can go nearly end to end on it without having to stop for lights. Imagine if there was a single way each side, heading in Sutton direction and having to stop at every junction with the cars.

Beta Ray Bill · 17-01-2023 04:56PM

Walked from St Lawrence Rd to to Clontarf Dart station this morning.

Cycle lane is looking good, but they've messed up the junction. The design is terrible.

There is no filter lane to turn left on to the Alfie Byrne road anymore and as a result there's a heap of cars in the Bus Lane

My mother works in East Wall and used to drive in one day and use the DART the other 3 (4 day week)

She's constantly giving out about people in the Bus lane. She went over to Clontarf Garda station to say it to them but they said they've no Garda available for that task.

Also was nearly knocked down by a Van turning left onto the Alfie Byrne. The pedestrian light was green so I was in the right. But there's a left arrow signal missing on the far side of the road. (There's one on the north side of the road but not on the island)

Seth Brundle · 17-01-2023 05:02PM

Is that just a temporary issue @Beta Ray Bill?

Frank Bullitt · 17-01-2023 05:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120745#Comment_120120745

Please god tell me that this is only a temp issue...

Beta Ray Bill · 17-01-2023 05:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120927#Comment_120120927

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120775#Comment_120120775

You have me 2nd guessing myself

I'll take a pic of it on the way home to double confirm

CatInABox · 17-01-2023 06:17PM

Think you might be wrong on this one BRB, there's a car lane going into Fairview, a bus lane in the middle, and on the far side of that, there's a left turn lane. The left turn lane has space for about 8 cars. Right now, as part of the traffic restrictions due to the works, the bus lane merges into the car lane well before the junction, after which it's a bit of a free for all getting into the bus lane or the left hand turn lane, but I've not seen cars in the bus lane yet.

What might happen in the future is that once space in the left turn lane runs out, cars will pile up in the bus lane, but that's the behaviour of people before the junction was worked on, so it'll be no different to before, and is just the standard junction layout that you'll see anywhere in Ireland.

I only drove through it 20 minutes ago, keeping an eye out as I'd read your post.

brianc89 · 17-01-2023 06:50PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121107#Comment_120121107

I passed here recently and my memory is that the left turning lane is permanently gone. To my memory, the pavement on the left (seaside inbound) is all paved.

bk · 17-01-2023 07:01PM

The layout is changed, but there is still a left turning lane. This is from the Dublin City Council plans:

So CatInABox is correct.

They could perhaps put some sort of "bus gate" just before it turns into three lanes to keep the buses flowing if it turns out to be a frequent problem.

bk · 17-01-2023 07:15PM

It is hard to tell exactly, but it looks like there is more space for left turning traffic in the new design, versus the old one.

This is the old layout:

Citizen Six · 17-01-2023 07:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121263#Comment_120121263

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121309#Comment_120121309

The slip is gone, but the turning lane is still there.

The thinking is that cars don't slow down for slip lanes, so they are more dangerous for old people and children.

bk · 17-01-2023 07:27PM

"The thinking is that cars don't slow down for slip lanes, so they are more dangerous for old people and children."

Yes, plus with the old design a pedestrian had to cross 3 sets of traffic lights, now it will be just one set of lights.

The old design was very anti pedestrian/cyclist design, with needing to cross so many sets of lights.

bk · 17-01-2023 07:30PM

Looks like this now (well November 2022):

cgcsb · 17-01-2023 07:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120120745#Comment_120120745

There's the wider issue of bus lane enforcement which should have been tackled years ago.

CatInABox · 17-01-2023 08:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121407#Comment_120121407

Yeah, that's it, still the same layout now. Looks a bit different for those still expecting a slip road, but I think the plan is to phase them out everywhere but motorways? I might be imagining that actually, but I wouldn't be surprised. I didn't realise how unsafe they were until someone pointed out to me that you've got to look in the opposite direction to where you're travelling. People taking them at speed either won't see what's coming on the road behind them, or see what's in front of them.

Frank Bullitt · 17-01-2023 08:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121407#Comment_120121407

So they just got rid of the shortcut lane that ran through what is now the pavement.

Seth Brundle · 17-01-2023 09:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121799#Comment_120121799

What they've done also means that left-turning traffic will be moving ore slowly and carefully.

Frank Bullitt · 17-01-2023 09:20PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121814#Comment_120121814

Good point, that old short cut road was like a Grand Prix circuit at times.

Beta Ray Bill · 17-01-2023 09:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121107#Comment_120121107

There are cones blocking the Bus Lane for some reason.

I'm unsure why they are there, bit its causing traffic to back up as people are jumping into the buss lane far back assuming they'll be able to turn left maybe? (I don't know how long they've been there)

That's why i though the filter lane was gone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120121358#Comment_120121358

Something else weird is happening though on the new Junction.

Cars are stopping at the Red X instead of the Green X (maybe it's not finished?)

The can see the filter light then at the blue arrow and assume that the light is green to turn left when its not.

I understand why they got rid of the island and the left hand slip way. Cyclists dont want to stop twice

Ill take a pic tomorrow

Pete_Cavan · 17-01-2023 09:58PM

I assume the issue is that there is now less green light time turning left onto ABR as such traffic has to wait for two pedestrian crossing sequences (1 x north/south and 1 x east/west) whereas previously it was one (across the slip lane itself). The reduced green time sees traffic backing up beyond the turn off lane and people sit in the bus lane until they can get into the turn off lane, instead of waiting in the general driving lane.

bk · 17-01-2023 10:18PM

"Cars are stopping at the Red X instead of the Green X (maybe it's not finished?)

The can see the filter light then at the blue arrow and assume that the light is green to turn left when its not.

I understand why they got rid of the island and the left hand slip way. Cyclists dont want to stop twice

Ill take a pic tomorrow"

Yes, I haven't been down there since December, so I'd assume/hope it is just that the works haven't finished yet and the light sequences aren't all properly set up yet.

You are right, cars should never be stopped at the red x, that should be a yellow junction box there. If that persists after the works complete, then it definitely needs to be fixed, perhaps with adjustments to traffic light times and perhaps it would make it safer if they also put a traffic light at X so any cars who stop there can see when cars are supposed to pass.

"I assume the issue is that there is now less green light time turning left onto ABR as such traffic has to wait for two pedestrian crossing sequences (1 x north/south and 1 x east/west) whereas previously it was one (across the slip lane itself). The reduced green time sees traffic backing up beyond the turn off lane and people sit in the bus lane until they can get into the turn off lane, instead of waiting in the general driving lane."

You could maybe resolve that by having the two sets of pedestrian lights go red at the same time, that would fundamentally mean a left turning car really is only crossing one set of lights. Of course the obvious issue is the folk rushing a red light at the green x above and then getting stuck at the red x as people have already started crossing there. It does seem dangerous if the timing of the lights aren't properly sorted.

BTW even though there was previously only one light at the slip, there was also a Yield sign before entering ABR, so cars would often have to stop twice on the slip anyway.

CatInABox · 17-01-2023 11:30PM

There are cones blocking the Bus Lane for some reason.

I'm unsure why they are there, bit its causing traffic to back up as people are jumping into the buss lane far back assuming they'll be able to turn left maybe? (I don't know how long they've been there)

That's why i though the filter lane was gone

Yeah, that's what I thought as soon as you said it. DCCs traffic department are usually pretty conservative when it comes to traffic restrictions at building sites, and this is just another example of it. The idea is to "calm" the traffic before it can put anyone working on the site in danger. It does indeed work, but at this stage, with the junction mostly complete, I'm not sure if it's still necessary. DCC though, they'll probably won't take it out until the full works are finished, that's how conservative they are.

bikeman1 · 17-01-2023 11:36PM

What they need to install there is a division between the bus Lane and general lane. I’m not a fan of bollards, but they work in certain instances.

Similar to the approach at Whitehall Church which keeps the cars out of the bus lane while they queue to make the left turn.

Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

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