The Jimbo Slice memorial thread, feat Nate Dogg - The new Off Topic thread

OmegaGene · 05-01-2023 2:41pm

Question for you folks, saw someone doing the seated leg press today but they had heavy resistance bands on the side, I am trying to figure out the benefit over just adding more weight

im only going to the gym a few years and might be missing Something glaringly obvious

Reps4jesus · 05-01-2023 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068892#Comment_120068892

depends on the mechanics of the leg press machine and where you attach the bands but it will change the level of resistance at either the top or bottom of the movement

OmegaGene · 05-01-2023 3:30pm

they were wrapped around the safety handles and where the weight is added, never seen it done before and the bands looked fairly slack

Cill94 · 05-01-2023 8:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069212#Comment_120069212

I have seen a guy on IG before talking about the importance of this for 'optimising the resistance profile' on certain machines (he had very small legs)..

It's one of these theoretical hacks that I'm not convinced will really enhance gains enough for it to matter. Add more weight/do more reps works fine. I am biased to simplicity though.

OmegaGene · 05-01-2023 8:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120070696#Comment_120070696

The people on insta are always trying to reinvent the wheel, I’m sure that’s where the person got the idea from, it had me baffled.

its hard to beat simplicity 👍🏻

Cill94 · 05-01-2023 8:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120070718#Comment_120070718

Yeah the thing about simplicity for me is it lets you shift the focus to just doing the work with no distractions.

If you're always trying to 'optimise' things or reinvent the wheel with bands, the perfect foot set-up, warm-up etc. then there's kind of an implication that you can just hack your way out of hard work..

Black Sheep · 05-01-2023 9:05pm

It's definitely to alter the resistance profile, in principle, although if it was slack through the whole movement then he didn't have it right.

I agree that it's not a technique that most people need to bother with, and I'd be surprised if people who built amazing physiques like Arnold and Dorian ever used bands to hack their machines' resistance profiles, but it's not probably not bunkum either.

Machines do challenge muscles in their lengthened or shortened positions in different ways depending on how they are designed, and people have spent a lot of time figuring out how to place bands, and on which peg etc, to adjust the resistance profile of how they challenge the muscles.

Someone might not want the hardest point in a hack squat to be the bottom (which it definitely is), they might want to create a more even resistance profile so that they feel like they're being challenged at the bottom but also in the mid range. So they might reverse band from the top of the machine to give them a slight assist at the bottom where their quads are lengthened and at their weakest.

You'd band it the opposite with a leg press. The leg press is hard to press out of the hole, but the end range towards lock out is not challenging, even with heavy weights, where the quads are shortened.

What I've found from looking at the training of pro bodybuilders who are doing this stuff is that usually they might do something like a reverse banded hack squat for a training cycle and then later in another cycle they'll do it unbanded, and so on. It's not something that's always in there. Another application is potentially to adjust the resistance profile if they feel there's an injury risk in a particular position.

It's not that different to the use of bands and chains in barbell training. Most people could lift their whole lives and never bother, but there is an application there for people who are advanced or want to try a different stimulus. I did conjugate programming for years and personally I never once used bands on a dynamic day, I just never felt like I had earned it.

Mellor · 10-01-2023 12:21am

It's not that different to the use of bands and chains in barbell training. Most people could lift their whole lives and never bother, but there is an application there for people who are advanced or want to try a different stimulus.

That was my first though also.

The idea behind it is sound, it works. But it's a minor addition and no really a must for anyone.

silverharp · 19-01-2023 5:39pm

if the clip is a film of an actual test lol

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1615783888923541524

Black Sheep · 19-01-2023 6:01pm

They say in the voice over it's a training video released by the Garda Press Office. I think we can safely assume it's not an actual test.

It doesn't seem like anyone actually agrees with Jim O'Callaghan TD on this ... Not Simon Harris as Minister, not even the Garda Representative Association.

I agree with Prof Niall Moyna that, if anything, in principle the testing should be tougher and occur on an ongoing basis. As it stands its only staff doing pre-selection for specialist units who might be asked to complete some form of testing.

But as usual it comes down to time and money. Lots of competing areas crying out for reform. I like the idea of a fitter Garda organisation, perhaps with staff facilitated to train and supported to achieve those goals... But I wouldn't hold my breath that this is a priority.

Mellor · 20-01-2023 1:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120130294#Comment_120130294

Start looks like a bleep test. IT gets progressively harder. These test generally have pretty low thresholds, but they are also harder than they sound

silverharp · 20-01-2023 10:29am

I was thinking it must be harder, but they left themselves open with the clip they showed. they certainly shouldnt lesson the test , at a basic level its an intelligence test, if you arent smart enough to prepare for a challenge that you have several months notice of then you arent going to be exactly top drawer material.

It would make a interesting themed circuit class challenge for a gym.

Black Sheep · 20-01-2023 5:31pm

I must be missing something... Why does the clip 'leave them open', is it not just them demonstrating for the camera what the exercises involved in the test are?

Before this test there was a 1.5 mile run which was the main fitness test used. There were push-ups and sit-ups, but the run was the main hurdle. The time required gradually slid, for male and female candidates, until it was replaced by the new test that is supposed to be more occupationally accurate. So a harder but quite arbitrary test of suitability replaced with a more all-around but probably too easy test, basically...

I think there's also confusion about the purpose of an entry test. There's nothing to say that you couldn't have an accessible entry test and then bring trainees to a higher standard of fitness during their training period. That's the norm in every military ever. I accept that's not what happens in the Gardaí but again that's more reflective of what the training priorities are than anything else.

silverharp · 20-01-2023 8:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120135133#Comment_120135133

I know Twitter isnt real life but if you read the comments the video makes it look like a very easy test that some politician wants to make even easier because too many are failing it, hilarity ensues.

Personally Im not sure you need an entry test, Im sure you could eliminate the unsuitable with a basic medical and the rest could be assessed during their training when as young people put through a program they would easily improve anyway

Black Sheep · 20-01-2023 9:35pm

I've said it before on here, and I know it's something that would never come in in a billion years, but just having a pull-up requirement would go a long way.

If I could only have one metric of fitness to test, it would be that. Testing someone's ability to hit a number appropriate to their age and sex doesn't just test upper body strength, it's an inadvertent way of measuring overall body composition and this in turn is a pretty good indicator of overall health and fitness.

For the sake of argument, males 20-29 could have a target based on bodyweight categories that ranged between 3 and 7 strict pull-ups. Males 30-30 it could be between 1 and 4 based on bodyweight. Females could have timed holds at the top position in lieu of the ability to perform a pull-up, I think this is pretty typical.

If you made it even easier and said every male applicant has to perform even just 1 strict pull-up for entry you would weed out a huge amount of physically unsuitable candidates in one fell swoop. It would be massively effective at preventing the entry of candidates who are probably never going to progress their fitness, and it would prevent time on money on everyone's part from being wasted on their training.

silverharp · 25-01-2023 1:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120136164#Comment_120136164

I agree with focusing on one or two metrics for example grip strength , the step up VO2 test. After that you know you have somebody you know you can train. Tall people would find a pull up more difficult but you could probably handicap it based on height

Cill94 · 25-01-2023 6:17pm

Strong agree on the pull-up front. A great indirect measure of strength and body composition. That and a run test would cover a lot of bases.

I personally don't think being tall is an excuse for any young fit male to not be able to do at least 5 strict reps.

Whether those higher standards would be worth the tradeoff of less people passing the test and less Gards employed is the real issue.

Black Sheep · 25-01-2023 10:53pm

I have long monkey arms and I actually prefer to go really wide grip overhand. Somehow I never realised until this moment it might be because it shortens the ROM. Lol

Mellor · 20-02-2023 12:27am

Hitting a bit of a flow in the gym of late. Switched over to DBs for the main lifts for a while. Was planning on 6 reps for my last work set on press and bench press. Hit 8 reps, time to move up weight, which is somewhere around PR territory. Which is really were DBs start to become difficult to position.

Black Sheep · 25-02-2023 8:44pm

My lifting is going really well at the moment. Still following Joe DeFranco programming and my bench and overhead press are climbing back into the territory they were in when I was at my strongest (During COVID). I'm still a little agog considering I couldn't bench at all with a straight bar last year, thought my shoulder was just permanently banjaxed.

I went through a stage of being like "Joe DeFranco programming is amazing" when it got better... Then I was like "OK, now I'll go and do something else", and then now that I came back and have stuck with it for several more cycles, I'm really at a point where I can't even say I'd be getting stronger if I was off doing more conventional programming. My rule of thumb is if I'm progressing then I don't stop whatever I'm doing.

My deadlift is the only thing that is moving very slowly, but I have learned that it's rare you can bring up all lifts at the same time.

Joe has let it be known the next programme he's running us through is one which revolves around re-introducing power training for older athletes. He did a talk for Kabuki on this lately, and essentially this is his approach to sprints, jumps and throws for "washed up meatheads" like me. Apparently I can expect rotating throw variations, some sprint variations that are designed to be easier on the body and sub-maximal jumps prioritising quality of movement over intensity.

I'm a little bit sceptical but I have to be honest that I have actually measurably seen my power output decline noticeably as I have gotten older. When I was 30 I could snatch bodyweight and power clean 100kg, and although I was never fast (sprinting) I had a good vertical jump. I don't really train any fast lifts anymore but I believe my power clean max is probably more like 80kg now which is a big drop off. I don't think I could even do an honest full depth snatch with 50kg these days let alone bodyweight... I don't even want to try it. My jumping and sprinting ... Well I don't do them ... So there's that... But I feel as if my confidence is actually the thing that is lacking now. So I guess I'm keeping an open mind and thinking maybe this could be a good idea to try.

I'm also laughing at the fact that my training is starting to 100% resemble the 531 Jim Wendler training I did years ago... It's incredible the similarities now. Wendler doesn't strike me as a very nice guy TBH, I don't like his vibe, but he was right about a lot of things.

Cill94 · 26-02-2023 11:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120288357#Comment_120288357

I'm a little bit sceptical but I have to be honest that I have actually measurably seen my power output decline noticeably as I have gotten older.

It's the first thing to decline before strength or muscle mass alright. Still could retain a lot of it with some weekly power based stuff like you'd mentioned though. A really easy one to do also is power clean all your presses into position, and do box jumps as part of lower body warm up.

Wendler doesn't strike me as a very nice guy TBH, I don't like his vibe,

He's always come across as a pretty stand-up guy to me?

Black Sheep · 27-02-2023 5:20pm

I considered editing that out after I wrote it, it is not accurate, so I'll definitely clarify-

My impression from being on his forum is that he is not that interested in the fitness industry, writing etc online and does it all in the most minimal way he can.

I think he could have more tact in the way he interacts with people.

But this doesn't make him a bad guy per say, and I was wrong to say that.

You could argue it comes from a good place, he is obviously just a massive introvert and wants to be left alone. But that doesn't sit that well with also still needing to sell people things.

Black Sheep · 27-02-2023 5:25pm

I'm in the market for a new barbell and considered taking a bit of a gamble on one of the little-known EU suppliers.

I've always thought it was worth paying for Rogue, but compared to a few years ago they are arguably resting on their laurels quite a bit more than they used to. Good quality control / made in USA does appeal to me, but these days the finishes they offer, materials used and the overall price are not that compelling, I feel like you're paying for the brand to an extent.

There are big importers like Strength Shop and Blk Box that I've used in the past and may use again, but I've gone "down the rabbit hole" somewhat on companies in Eastern Europe that are either importing high spec barbells from China or are manufacturing themselves.

One company is stronggear.eu which has minimal reviews / information online but has a good name in what's out there. They're importing bars from China. Their flagship olympic bars / power bars are actually cheaper than a Rogue EU Ohio bar (by at least 50 euro) but are significantly higher spec... Completely stainless shaft and sleeves, higher tensile strength etc.

I corresponded with them a bit and they'll ship a bar to Ireland for 50 euro. They're saying there are few reviews of their stainless bars online because they barely sell any, people are predominantly only interested in their cheaper bars (Has the ring of truth, to be honest, I'm a bit cracked to be dropping 400 euro on a barbell, as a hobbyist).

I'm tempted. From what I can see the only advantage to paying more via Rogue EU (and for a zinc finish, most likely) is that you know the QC is there, there will be no odd things that arise down the line.

Cill94 · 27-02-2023 9:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294740#Comment_120294740

Ah I get you. I've not been on the forum so I can't speak to how he interacts on there.

I've seen him do Q+As before. I definitely wouldn't describe his answers as particularly kind, but I do think they're what people need to hear. I think the guys who feed into people's BS around overcomplicating everything, really do them a much bigger disservice.

He's definitely in a very unique position in that he got in on the ground floor of the whole 'strength programme ebook' thing, and seems to have effectively cornered that niche, seeing as he seems to be the only one of those guys who doesn't really need to work anymore.

I see what you mean about wanting more from the responses for a paid service with the forum. It's only like 10 bucks a month though, no?

Black Sheep · 27-02-2023 9:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120295573#Comment_120295573

It's cheap but tbh when I was on there it was dead. I feel like he could make a better effort at things but the whole point is he doesn't care I guess and doesn't have to.

Black Sheep · 09-04-2023 4:40pm

Saw Dorian Yates yesterday at his seminar at Mind Over Matter Gym in Coolock.

Nice old-school gym for anyone into bodybuilding and general lifting. Friendly crowd, obviously a bit of a community going on. A lot of good plate-loaded machines.

Dorian was interesting to see and listen to in person. If you've listened to the hours and hours of podcasts and footage of him which are online at this stage you will have a good idea of what was covered and what his approach is. He's very consistent, never changes his account of his career or in terms of what he promotes for lifting. It's still high intensity training all the way. He was saying he does a lot more yoga and cardio nowadays, but you get the sense that a big part of why he's not doing the lifting the same way is because of serious injuries rather than any belief that it's not the most optimal way to lift for muscle growth.

He showed push, pull, legs workouts in the applied section of the seminar.. He mentioned this prior in the seminar, for most people he thinks chest/shoulders/triceps, back/biceps and legs is the way to go.

His idea of "3 sets" is basically ascending sets, the first set is a warm-up weight for 10, the second set is moderately difficulty but maybe 7RPE, and then the final set is to failure and on everything he showed except the bent over row he assisted people through a few extra reps once they hit failure. Rep range suggested was 8-15, but body part dependent. Definitely a preference for machines, but he was pretty positive about free weights. Interestingly he said he only does unilateral for the upper body, never the lower - which is the classic instability argument. I can understand that for a bodybuilder but I would have thought this stance might have softened nowadays. Still a big fan of compound lifts.

I never understood how he said he could get a workout done in 35-45 minutes, but he really does rattle through... Not that much rest, and not many warm-up sets. It was just 12 sets for the push workout... Decline bench, machine chest press, incline DB flye and tricep pushdown. Pull was lat pulldown, bent over row, seated low row and I might be forgetting if there was another movement. Legs was leg extension, smith machine squat, hack squat and again I could be forgetting something.

If you don't have a training partner to assist with the forced reps, and for the extra motivation and safety, he suggested possibly doing what you can with intensifiers like rest/pause, drop sets, partials and so on. But a big takeaway for me was that he confirmed a training partner is a huge, huge part of his approach. I'd go so far as to say you're not training DY style if you don't have a training partner who knows what you are doing and what their role is.

Mr. CooL ICE · 18-04-2023 11:56am

Someone in a local facebook group asked where to buy "raw, unleaded honey".

I don't think I've heard it all just yet, but I feel I'm getting close.

Black Sheep · 12-10-2023 3:18pm

2 comments that don't appear to fit in anywhere else...

Someone is selling an all stainless Rogue Ohio bar on Adverts.ie for 450 euro. The RRP is 694, if it has stainless shaft and stainless sleeves, so that's not a bad deal, depending on the condition.
I was in Decathlon lately and impressed at the pricing and finish of both their Hex DBs and their full rack. The full rack is heavy enough that it's not going anywhere, even if not bolted down. It's significantly chunkier than their benches and squat stands.

Cill94 · 12-10-2023 6:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491038#Comment_120491038

Sounds like Mark Moto

Black Sheep · 13-10-2023 10:31am

I may have met him in real life a while back. I was in a locker room at the gym, and this guy started telling us that if you ate salad with a fork, the metal would actually destroy the nutrient value of the vegetables in the salad. It was a fact, he said he had a very, very knowledgeable chiropractor friend, in Poland, who had confirmed this.

The Jimbo Slice memorial thread, feat Nate Dogg - The new Off Topic thread

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