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New Application Timeframe….. Will Update

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  • 26-12-2022 6:20pm
    #1
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    I thought I’d start this thread and will update as and when any updates occur.

    New Application for a .22 LR Rifle.

    Lodged to North Dublin Garda Station (K District)

    Application Lodged : 24.12.2022.



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Whether 1st or 100th application, doesn't matter, caliber doesn't matter, station doesn't matter, the only thing that really matters is did you get acknowledgement/receipt of application?. If you did get receipt, then BY LAW, you MUST receive an answer by 25th March (allowing for only 28 days in February) OR IF YOU DO NOT RECEIVE AN ANSWER BY THIS DATE, you only have 28 days FROM this date to lodge an appeal. SO SAYS THE STATUTE BOOKS.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    No I got no receipt of Application.

    Im posting to give a timeframe to others as there seems to be a lot of posts on delays. Also on some of the FB Groups, some are waiting 6 months or longer!



  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    From experience: Use WORD or similar, to print out receipt that stipulates " Receipt of "applications" from "?" on such a date and time, and signed by "garda" "number" and stamped. By LAW you are entitled to this. It also means that the chance of your application "going missing" is reduced, because you have a way to trace it. Only, saying

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,933 ✭✭✭✭Witcher




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭garrettod


    If you dropped the application into the station, aren't you on camera?

    • I'd have thought that would be sufficient evidence of date of submission, without asking for a receipt.

    Thanks,

    G.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Good luck getting that film, ha ha. Can't tell who killed Kennedy, but can tell who didn't ?

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Too late, it's Christmas, don't have time for TROLLS.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,933 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    So you admit this law regarding receipts doesn't exist?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,549 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    MODERATOR WARNING

    Someone asking for clarification or elaboration on a point is not trolling. It's a question based off a previously made statement of fact. If you cannot provide the law or erred by claiming it's a law, then simply say so. Calling someone a troll is not productive and starts this nonsense on thread.

    Let's move on please, and keep it civil.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭freddieot


    There is always the option to send it as a Registered Letter. I've done this a few times myself. An Post will be able to supply a record of date and time of delivery along with a signature of the person picking up or receiving the item. Courts normally accept this as proof of delivery. It's used a lot even in Civil Cases.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭itisnotgrand


    I like this a lot! There’s no requirement to meet the FO in person to the best of my knowledge.

    However I will add on to make sure that the letter is addressed to “the Firearms Officer, my local station” and include a signed on the back photocopy of your driver’s licence or passport page.

    it might be wise to also ring the station and ask who is the firearms officer and is he or she on leave or not. Unfortunately the postage costs are still your loss as it’s extra cost we shouldn’t need to do!

    Post edited by itisnotgrand on


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    The Gardai won't give a receipt when you hand in your firearms application.

    I have sometimes received a receipt in the post where the Gardai say that they have received your application and that they have 3 months to make a decision. I haven't received this for all applications. And once or twice I've received it after my licence was granted.



  • Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭freddieot


    I've never received a letter of receipt for the application. The first correspondence from them is usually the grant letter. I think it's the same for most people.

    Be careful if addressing anything to the FO, especially a Registered letter. Don't use their name as it may be left to one side if they are on leave etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    Dont waste your time with a registered letter.

    For it to be a valid delivery it must be addressed to a specific person who must sign for it to be an acceptable delivery/proof of service.

    IOW you must address it to the Super/Cheif and they must personally sign for it, not their secretary, the FO, the janitor, or any other body,as they can still say they never received it. So the local postman isn't going to go to the Supers office and get a personal signature for it to show proof of delivery. Same as addressing it to "The designated firearms officer" It will be signed for by some munchkin and be left in an IN tray in the FOs desk to be dealt with when they get back from traffic duty,or whatever else they have been put on due to lack of manpower.

    If you want to make sure it is in the system. Take a trip to your divisional HQ at any time of day or night,[they are usually 24/7] and hand it to the duty officer on the desk. Note the time and date obviously and ask the duty Garda/Sgt for their name, and to please record this delivery in the station logbook. Which they should do, as a matter of course of good watchkeeping.

    Now it is officially logged,in the Garda system and custody and your form will be sent back OUT to your local station for their FO to deal with,to bring it back IN to the Div Hq for the Super to decide on. That should take no longer than 72 hours, as a designated officer or station Sgt usually reports in daily to div HQ in person with any official Garda correspondence needing attention, and a FAC application showing up at Div HQ without the local station attending to it is a raised eyebrow moment.

    Above info and advice from a retired Garda FO... You're welcome!

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭kunekunesika


    I always get a receipt. Hand written into an official document receipt book, carbon copy given to me. Never have to ask.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Great advice.

    I just handed mine to the desk Garda at 3pm on Christmas Eve.

    I had it all stapled, photo stuck to sheet and everything in a plastic folder sheet.

    He went through it, signed and stamped it.

    Would you recommend a call next week to ensure it has been placed I. The correct “tray”?

    Given it’s Christmas week and all that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭JP22


    Over the years, not always but more often than not, I've received an official (by post) letter acknowledging my application.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭garrettod


    ...

    I usually get a receipt by post, acknowledging the application (often a "renewal") - but like you, it can arrive at any time, even after I've paid my grant.

    The more I read some of the comments here, the more I'm starting to think that I'm quite fortunite with the service I get, compared with many others here. That's a real shame, and needs to be sorted out, for everyones benefit

    Thanks,

    G.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Yep, I get what you are saying.

    My point though about a receipt is that the Gardai won't give you a receipt there and then when you hand them the paperwork. Experience has shown that application forms can sit in the Garda station for months before they are entered onto the system and forwarded to the Super for further processing.

    Gardai have three months to make a decision on a firearms application but the three months doesn't start the minute you hand the Garda your application form. It only starts once they input the application form onto their system. And that can be minutes, days or even months after you give them the form.

    Like you, I've a good FO in my area and he's very good at getting his end of stuff done.

    It would be a much better system if they gave you a receipt upon handover of the application form. That would be pretty good incentive for the Gardai to get the ball rolling as soon as possible on inputting the application form. As things stand, if you hand in an application form to the Gardai, you've actually no proof that you handed it in until they input it on the system (then you might get the posted receipt). If they don't input it on the system, they can say they never received it. That would then be a matter for the Data Commissioner under GDPR but even if you go make a complaint, you've no proof you ever handed it in unless you had verified footage of you submitting it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    That would then be a matter for the Data Commissioner under GDPR but even if you go make a complaint, you've no proof you ever handed it in unless you had verified footage of you submitting

    Not necessarily. If you handed it in person and noted the Gardas name, time and date you handed it in and requested it is entered into either the station log or correspondence received log. Thats good enough evidence to satisfy any legal point that the station received this letter. After all,if it came down to proof in a court, your legal team could summons the Garda and requisition the station log and or the correspondence log as evidence. As would the Data commissioner and Garda Ombudsman. Also,on most if not all by now Div Garda stations,and some locals.There is CCTV covering the day room and hatch.So that could also be requsitioned if needed,and still exists.

    In fairness to AGS ,I don't think it is a policy of utter malignancy to delay or deliberately lose paperwork..[Maybe in some cases where they know a character is a bit of a "head the ball" and is just trying it on for the craic to get a gun and they are " gently persuading"them not to?]

    I think it is simply down to manpower and a lack of a genuine dedicated person who is knowledgeable on the firearms law whose sole job is to deal with applications and quieries in every division.Most Gardai who get lumped with firearms applications consider this a penance job,where they might have little to no intrest or training in to be done when they have a a spare moment,when they aren't being dragged off to cover for someones sickness,leave or whatever else they are needed in as police officers. Also,when that Garda is getting a hang of the job,it seems they are then promoted,moved or otherwise out of the firearms dept,for another newbie to arrive and we start afresh with all the problems again.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



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  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Firearms Act 1925-2021 as amended. Section 3 (9) A decision on an application for a firearm certificate or its renewal shall be given within 3 months from the date on which the applicant submitted a completed application form.

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,788 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    That's not always adhered to but yes, you are correct.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Tobac223


    Any time I hand in a FCA1 form I ask the receiving Garda to fill out Section 7 which is the validation.

    ”For completion by the Garda member receiving the application at local station where applicant resides”

    Gumbo mentioned they got that done when handing it in “ he went through it & signed & stamped it “ .

    After the Garda does that I request to take a photo on my phone and there is never an issue to this .

    It’s as good as a receipt as you have the date , signature ,rank , Garda reg number ,station & Station office stamp .

    I never had anything getting “lost” since .

    Hope this may be helpful.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,317 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    That’s a good idea, but I never took the photo 😃



  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭itisnotgrand


    Good idea

    Post edited by itisnotgrand on


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭alex90


    That would be a great way to get on the wrong side of them imo



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,016 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    No need to go all 007.Just get the Gardas name who is on duty when the paperwork is handed in, note the time&date and ask them to enter this into the correspondence received log, or the station log.In your presence.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭itisnotgrand




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,663 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Shoving a camera in someone's face is a dick move.

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭itisnotgrand


    in the context of what we’re discussing it’s not a random someone and it’s not in their face



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