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Working From Home Megathread

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Comments

  • Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jeez, would ya get down off your high horse, most companies are not stupid enough to tell you that someone else is being trained/groomed for your job, but that is not to say it doesn’t happen that you have been training the person the company plan to replace you with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Give over pal, I am not on any high horse.

    There is this old world belief in this thread that every company is trying to replace you with some poor Indian lad who you trained and you had no choice because the big boss told you so, and you have to fall into line or else...

    Most companies just don't do that at all, some out source of course, but some don't as well. The idea that you have no choice in the matter as well is laughable.

    If you yourself knew that this was happening to you, would you happily go along with it? Really?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,583 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    im not sure what you do Frank, you make it sound like you work on an assembly line and every movement of your limbs is pre defined, any employment contract i have ever signed gives an employer lots of leeway around whats expected of you in work, training should be expected of everyone.


    And its not a creative scenario, your head must be in the sand, it has been happening everywhere for the past 20 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    I work in tech/software. So the idea that you would be made redundant, but then expected to train your replacement is laughable, especially in my industry.

    You can go above and beyond in your duties outlined in your contract of work to a degree. However, training a replacement for the role you are being let go from/made redundant from is a big stretch on that front.

    An employer can have leeway in a contract, so can an employee.

    I hate to break it to you, but this scenario sounds like something from the 1950's, where you were expected to work on weekends for free or you lose your job. Employees have rights, and plenty of access to legal backing to exercise them as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,583 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    I hate to break it to you but you are deluded, they are loads of examples of this happening:



    and training people isn't something unusual for an employer to expect you to do, most of us do it every day in way shape or form.


    Your continued use of words like duties and tasks make you sound like a civil servant from the 60s



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,815 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    There are none so blind as those who just won't see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    How dare I mention my duties and tasks as part of my employment contract, which my employer has also listed, the gaul! All the buzz terms mentioned in that article as well..."Looker has a Department of Customer Love, which is more than just a department name and sets the culture—it’s the secret sauce, it’s the DNA,”. If people fall for that kind of garbage, they need a head check.

    Basic skill jobs are a dime a dozen.

    And out sourcing support roles, which aren't exactly highly skilled, is to be expected.

    Training isn't in my job description as a Product Designer, it is to design and implement solutions. If a company wants me to train anyone, I do not posses those skills because I myself am not trained to teach design. So why would a company expect me to do that when I can't?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Says the person who says they trained their own replacement twice now...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    So let those who want go in go, and those who don't want to WFH. I think they call that hybrid, right?

    Some, not most, big tech companies want people back because they have a lease on an asset. Look at Meta who now have decided not to take up office space it originally intended to -

    Same as well with their offices in London.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,583 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    so you can do something but would be unable to show someone else how to do it? How do junior staff in your place build their knowledge then?


    id take a look at your employment contract as well, id be surprised if the scope of your role is so narrowly defined.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    I read my contract inside out before I signed it, and I know what I have to do and if I am asked to do some additional that is related I would gladly do it.

    Junior designers learn by doing, as do most professionals. So in the case of junior designers, you gradually give them more tasks to do and more responsibilities, but not large tasks that are above their skillset. I would equally argue that mentoring them is different to training them. But again, design isn't the same as a mechanics job or an electrician etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,982 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Again employers cannot make someone redundant and simply replace them - they have to make the role redundant. Shutting down the line of business or moving the operation elsewhere will make a role redundant.

    But Tim cannot be made redundant so that a cheaper John can do the exact same work in the same place. Thats highly illegal and easy to prove. I have seen idiot employers come out with statements like "we decided to make Tim redundant" - first mistake and often fatal. Do not personify. Even if Tim is useless, you cannot make him redundant. Obviously there are other procedures HR can employ to improve Tim's performance e.g. PIP, Dismissal process etc.

    One of the FANNGs recently came out with a statement saying they were going to make the bottom 10% redundant. I think it was Google. Completely illegal statement and they shot themselves in the foot immediately. They were confusing the Dismissal process with Redundancy process. Two completely different acts.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,982 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Totally agree.

    I think we will see a big reshape on things relating to offices and so on over the next few years. Offices and leases are a large part of budgets as we know, remote work helps cut that and also (depending on the company) they can hire in other cities which is a benefit for companies and workers.

    The hot desk solution I think has merit. My company does that, you use an app to book a desk and you are set to go. Each desk has the same set up and arrangement and you just plug and play.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,583 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Mentoring/

    advise or train (someone, especially a younger colleague).

    Dictionary definition,

    So you are training people then, glad we sorted that out. And I'm sure given you read your contract inside out you will agree mentoring or training more junior staff wouldn't be outside what would be reasonably expected of someone in a more senior position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,583 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,982 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Ok, I will give you that that mentoring and training are the same, however in design circles it is not formal training as it can be subjective and dependant on what kind of design as well. It is not the same as training someone with plumbing etc.

    And if I was asked to train or mentor a junior, I would want that reflected in my job title. Plus, training or mentoring a junior is far far different than training someone to replace you at your job, I hope you know the difference in there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 12,982 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Many tech employers now could not seat all their employees if they came into the office on the same day. They either overhired or reduced office space. I know one large employer that only has 50% capacity for it's Irish workforce.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,583 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Of course i know the difference, the reason we got to this point is because you seemed to be suggesting that training is not something that would be expected of you, now we have established that you may already be training people but I'm confused again as you want in your job title? Maybe we can finally agree of regardless of your expectations around a change in job title, your contract will be worded in such a way that to expect you give guidance or training to co workers wouldnt be something so obscure to be out of the scope of your employment.

    I'm not sure why you keep saying its not the same as training a plumber or electrician, again you are arguing against yourself like cluedo there.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,583 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    No no, I was never suggesting I wouldn't be training or mentoring a younger designer, apologies if it came across that way.

    What I was saying was I would never be training a direct replacement for my role if that scenario arouse (as some seem to have said they have in this thread). I am not ever going to do that, for a fee or otherwise.

    And I mention the training part in relation to design as you don't really hear it said that way. You don't "train" as designer in the same way as you do with other professions. It is a very subjective career choice, there are basics you can learn about some of it, but you aren't trained in the traditional sense. For example, everyone in my class at DIT would submit vastly different approaches to certain projects. So one would be photography based, one would be drawing based, one would be typography based. None are the right approach, but the execution of it is what is focused on. And again, it is all subjective.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Ironically, the selling point for employee culture for me at my current job is that it is remote first.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,569 ✭✭✭Backstreet Moyes


    Unfortunately none of us have the same imagination as you, so Unfortunately for us we can't see what you see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,355 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    So despite bending over backwards to be a good little employee (according to most of your posts) and having twice already trained in a replacement (because being a good little employee meant absolutely nothing to your employers) and apparently now having to train in a replacement outsourced worker a third time, you still haven't learned your lesson?

    ===
    boards.ie default cookie settings now include "legitimate interest" for >200 companies, unless you specifically opted out!



  • Posts: 14,768 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wonder why she is still in situ if others have been trained to do her job?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,815 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    I'm not: got redundancy from the first job a good while ago.

    The 3rd time hasn't happened yet, but I can see it's likely coming. It's not about being a good little employee, it's about following direct instructions. If tried saying "No I won't show the team procedures to Alexandru, because he's from Romania" I would be very rightly put in my place, and likely fired for insubordination. When the time comes, I'll do my job as requested, likely get the payout, and move on to something else. No job is forever.



  • Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Maybe she "trained" them to fail 😁 and then move on.

    That's probably what I would have done if faced with the same situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,815 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble




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  • Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I know it's paywalled, but I thought some of you guys would be interested in this.

    The amount of people doing at least half of their work remotely peaked at almost 30% during the pandemic, but it's still above 22% now.


    Just anecdotal, but I spoke to a man with a recruitment firm last night, he said it's very hard to fill non-remote jobs now, nearly everyone wants remote work.



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