Working From Home Megathread

13-11-2022 08:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868839#Comment_119868839

I was talking about the remote working legislation

AndrewJRenko · 14-11-2022 06:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868955#Comment_119868955

Sofia has no time zone overlap of working hours with west coast USA, just like anything east is Dublin and London.

14-11-2022 11:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119868955#Comment_119868955

But every multinational company is going to ask that, and do so on a fairly regular basis.

Mrs OBumble · 14-11-2022 12:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871478#Comment_119871478

But it likely has a lot of workers who will happily shift their working day to accommodate customer needs if it means they get a well paying job.

14-11-2022 12:37PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872499#Comment_119872499

While that is correct, most of these jobs are for supporting their systems in Europe, so the US times are less critical except for management meetings etc.

AndrewJRenko · 14-11-2022 01:12PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872499#Comment_119872499

Until they realise that it’s not sustainable in the long term or scalable across a large organisation.

14-11-2022 01:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119871703#Comment_119871703

Musk issued a dictum that anyone who doesn’t turn up for work at their office, he will accept this as their resignation. Which is fine in the US where workers have less rights, not so much in Ireland where employee rights are better, and the Government has/is legislating for workers to have a right to request WFH. So I very much doubt he was concerned about people leaving because of where they live, and was more concerned about the legal implications for Twitter if employees are unfairly dismissed.

Quin_Dub · 14-11-2022 01:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872765#Comment_119872765

I think it was also made clear to him that under the Irish legislation around the redundancy process that leadership can be held personally responsible and subject to fines and/or prison should it come to that.

I think what you'll see is that as the legal push-back come in from around the world and he learns the actual laws in the various countries, that the level of layoffs and changes outside the US will be much lower than inside.

Twitter is Musks first really "global" company , the rest are almost exclusively US based and I suspect he's getting a pretty quick education on global labour laws.

14-11-2022 03:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872847#Comment_119872847

It seems very strange that someone in his position wouldn't know there would be legal implications to announcing redundancies in the way he did, or ordering people to come back to an office after being told they can work remotely permanently. If Elon Musk really bought Twitter with so little knowledge of employers obligations then the hype must be true, he must be somewhat insane.

14-11-2022 03:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119873416#Comment_119873416

It gives you the right to request WFH, but all the employer needs to do is have reasonable grounds for denying it - if they are so inclined it should be pretty easy for them to say no.

That was how the first draft looked. The latest draft, by all reports, is a very different beast. Employers can still refuse, but there's a lot more there for employees to challenge on.

The exact details aren't known yet afaik as the latest draft hasn't been published but there's been several leaks/press releases indicating that its gone through a lot of changes

The Right to Request Remote Working Bill provided for 13 specific grounds upon which an employer could refuse a request.

Under the new integrated bill, the grounds for refusal will be replaced by an obligation on the employer to consider both their needs and the needs of employees when assessing a request.

Employers will also be required to have regard to the new code of practice and a complaint can be taken to the Workplace Relations Commission where an employer hasn't complied with the code.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/1109/1335154-remote-work-law-to-be-added-to-work-life-balance-bill/

Mrs OBumble · 14-11-2022 05:05PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872717#Comment_119872717

The lads in India appear to be managing quite nicely.

Hell there have been WFO roles in Galway for 15+ years that are on a permanent 3-11pm shift, to serve American customers. They've been both scalable and sustainable.

TaurenDruid · 14-11-2022 11:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119872499#Comment_119872499

You do talk some rubbish. There's a 10-hour difference between Sofia and California. You're assuming Bulgarian workers will happily shift their working day later by 5 to 6 hours in order to have late-evening (Bulgarian time) meetings with Californian execs? Giving up family and home life, and seeing their kids? Getting home between 11pm and midnight? Yeah, right.

TaurenDruid · 14-11-2022 11:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119873839#Comment_119873839

The "lads in India" are 5 hours ahead of Dublin and generally hand over to staff in the UK or Ireland, who then hand on to hand staff in the US, etc.

Also, both the lads in India and the girls in Galway took up employment knowing the terms, conditions, and hours expected. They weren't working a normal 9-to-5 until they suddenly got an order to work 3-11 instead.

Mrs OBumble · 15-11-2022 03:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875507#Comment_119875507

Yeah, I am assuming.

Because I 100% know that a lot of people in lower cost countries do exactly that.

And regard themselves as lucky to be able to work from home, instead of being a migrant worker living abroad and sending money home.

TaurenDruid · 15-11-2022 01:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875803#Comment_119875803

And you're ignoring that software engineers and devs in Bulgaria already have 9-ish to 5-ish jobs, including blended working. Unemployment rate in Bulgaria is currently around 4.2%, lower than here.

Dodge · 15-11-2022 01:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875803#Comment_119875803

You (demonstrably) don’t have a handle on what Irish workers want, but you want us to believe you know what Bulgarian workers want? Ha ha

Cluedo Monopoly · 17-11-2022 12:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875803#Comment_119875803

What's a lot? What industry?

I have worked in companies with Indian offices for nearly 20 years. The Indians all worked normal office hours unless they were on an IT support rota. We still had plenty of overlap with them in our mornings. The US folks loved having offices in Ireland to communicate/work with the Indian offices. It was crucial to the cost efficient offshore model. It still is.

baldbear · 12-12-2022 10:43PM

Have worked 1 day in office since I started new job in August.

It is going to be changed to 3 days a week next year.

The M50 absolutely kills me. 2hrs 45mins a day round trip and I won't be able to do any kids pick ups from school/creche. I'm only 5 mins from the school.

Employers say they care but they don't .

Mrs OBumble · 12-12-2022 10:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119989516#Comment_119989516

So get another new job closer to home, or with a different WFH policy.

sonyvision · 12-12-2022 11:04PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119989516#Comment_119989516

That is pretty **** to be honest. I have flirted with recruiters in recent months all telling me 2 or 3 days in the office so I'm not interested bussing it back to the city getting 7am buses.

My own job is still very much flexible. Went in one day last week for after work drinks. Not going in this week or next. Suppose my next day is early Jan.

Having a flexible company and an even better manager is a God send. I hope policy doesn't change any time soon. Its tough enough getting out of bed for 8:45 and logging on for 9:00 never mind a 35 minute drive.

Frank Bullitt · 13-12-2022 09:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119989516#Comment_119989516

Have a chat with your employer and see what arrangement can be made.

I am currently working from Ireland, my company has an office here and when I asked if I could work here during Christmas, the answer was "of course, just mark is in your hours on Slack, no worries".

Having an open dialogue with your job is the best approach, as long as you can get your work done there is really no need for you to be in an office.

Ignore that silly post above about getting a different job, they aren't the best for advice in here 🤣

Cluedo Monopoly · 13-12-2022 09:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119989516#Comment_119989516

People will leave and they will cop on. I have seen it already. The return to work plans always get revised with improved terms.

13-12-2022 10:46AM

So far, there has been no pressure from my employer to "return to the office", but I have noticed that a larger number are going in more often now.

Some people are simply fed up with the isolation that comes with WFH.

13-12-2022 10:50AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119990555#Comment_119990555

Do any suspect that if there are to be layoffs, being seen in the office may benefit them?

13-12-2022 10:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119990570#Comment_119990570

Depends on the company I suspect. A large multinational with relatively sophisticated performance management and HR departments, there’d be absolutely no benefit one way or the other. At least that’s my experience in our recent round of layoffs - there was zero consideration nor any correlation with in-person attendance.

A smaller domestic company with less sophisticated systems and managers focussed on presenteeism, then yes it probably does make a difference, perhaps a big one .

obviously a sliding scale in between the two depending on the company culture

13-12-2022 11:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119990570#Comment_119990570

No risk of any layoffs on the horizon, i think it really depends on the individual whether they prefer the office or their home to work from.

Backstreet Moyes · 14-12-2022 08:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119990555#Comment_119990555

That came up on Monday when a few of us met for lunch.

The main reason for most was people were going into the office to save on heating bills.

I suppose in winter it's dark when you finish work so maybe people are more likely to go into the office.

So it will be interesting if that changes early next year.

Dodge · 14-12-2022 08:41AM

I was going to say similar. A few people projecting their own issues there and assuming why some are going into the office

From my experience, and talking to others in similar situations, no body is going into the office more now because they’re “fed up with isolation” at home.

Im not suggesting that won’t be the case for some, but nearly three years down the line, the people who were fed up have long since changed their work patterns to go into an office more than others

14-12-2022 08:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994571#Comment_119994571

Circumstances have changed over the past three years, the cost of home heating, electricity and groceries has risen sharply and there is evidence of a contraction in the IT sector, which of course is the sector most suited to wfh. Considerations today are not the same as those 12, or even 6 months ago.

Dodge · 14-12-2022 08:52AM

Sure, loads of reasons why people may want to go into the office more (or less for some people). I just don’t think being “fed up” is a major one (now - it probably was for some 18 months ago)

Working From Home Megathread

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