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Random EV thoughts.....

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    Struggling to get more than 15km from the battery in this weather I'm going to just use hybrid mode until it's a bit warmer, the car is bloody Baltic on battery only which isn't going down well with herself. Petrol has dropped to 157.9 nearby which makes it nicer too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Would you normally buy new cars? They're all mad money now, e g. BMW 3 series starts at 55k and with a decent spec I'm sure it's well over 60k.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,633 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    The crucial bit "Since utilities are highly regulated and revenue-capped, they need to return excess profits to their customers in the form of lower rates"

    In Ireland on the other hand, all the utility companies are making record profits because of the energy crisis...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭cannco253




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,315 ✭✭✭zg3409


    I was spending 80 euro a week on petrol, using an EV I spent 20 euro a week on night rate electricity. I reckon I saved 16,000 euro on fuel costs over 4 years. Depreciation on the car ended up around 1,500 per year. Servicing, tyres etc. around 400 per year.

    My EV was not 50k but 25k for a used EV. It had it's limits such as needing to public charge on trips above 160km.

    The actual cost of ownership can vary a lot depending on daily commute, if you can home charge, if you need a small or big car, if you need a brand name car, and how well you can shop for a "bargain".

    I also kept my old car as a weekend car which helped on longer trips to avoid public charging.

    For some people it works out cheaper than a petrol or diesel. Indeed buying new, the right car, may be the lowest cost of ownership. Something like an MG4 may have negative depreciation, and be cheaper to run than even a free petrol car.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,633 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Is that some sort of joke or do they think we are fools? There's no more than 1kwp of PV cells on that "tree" and in different aspects too. And that is supposed to be able to (help) charge 4 cars? 🙄


    Seems like a rip off too of the smartflower. This actually does work and tracks the sun. But obviously very expensive per wp





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,321 ✭✭✭obi604


    My lowly 2014 Nissan Leaf is not doing well in this cold weather. Range is down a lot, am aware low temp affects range but really evident in last couple of days


    Just wondering, for the more modern ev’s, are they any better in this overly cold weather?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,576 ✭✭✭eagerv


    I remember from my pilot training days that cold air is very thick!🤣. Cars like the Classic Ioniq and Teslas will fare a bit better than the bricks. Otherwise they are much of a muchness. Batteries don’t particularly like the cold



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,633 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Nope. My 2017 Tesla Model S (facelift model with the much more efficient motor / drivetrain) uses about 35kWh / 100km in short trips in this sub zero weather. It would use about half that on the same trips in summer. So range is effectively halved doing all these short trips. What doesn't help either is that I never pre-condition the car and - just like your Leaf - doesn't have a heat pump


    My Ioniq was much better on short trips as it had a very efficient heat pump, another benefit was that the car was clear within a minute. No other car I have ever been in came even close to that. It's usually several minutes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,000 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    My ID.4 is suffering badly on the short hops around town, consumption up to 24kWh/100km

    Thankfully it lowers on longer trips, did an 80km roundtrip yesterday in the cold and it was around 20kWh/100km, which is probably only 10-20% above summer range

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,315 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Double or treble the battery size helps. You can preheat the car while still plugged in which helps warm cabin and slightly battery which reduces consumption during initial warm up phase. Newer cars tend to public charge faster and have more efficient heat pumps. Lower drag on some EVs less so others. Speed of driving has a big impact, even with a tesla high speed, cold weather equals reduced range. Headwinds can really impact range but it's not windy this week. I set my EV to start charging late overnight, say 3am start so the battery would be full and warm by the morning and would not sit at 100% unnecessarily long. My mobile phone does similar, it charges slowly overnight only topping up to 100% just before wake up alarm. This is better for phone battery.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    Smart metering applies to all electricity consumers. You can be sure there will be bespoke EV measures implemented once the initial EV honeymoon period is over and no more climate change brownie points to be earned. Then back to milking the ever generous car cash cow



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I very much doubt we'll see any bespoke EV measures, any changes will likely apply across all vehicles and act as further encouragement to help convince an individual to switch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    Once ICEs have been banned you can be sure there will be an equally lucrative equivalent to the current ICE CO2 based emissions VRT.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The only people who seem to think it won't be, are those who constantly remind EV owners it will happen. Road usage pricing is the most likely system, applied to all road users in such a way that BEV usage replaces current tax take from motoring, but ICE usage ends up paying way more than they do today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    The problem is is that the emission based taxes have seen a big drop in tax take from the old cc based system. Tax by vehicle weight, now that would be interesting 🤔



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,106 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I was on around that when I bought my first Tesla



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    Maybe a kwh based system? Would encourage people to buy smaller and more efficient EVs



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,106 ✭✭✭✭ELM327




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,431 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Depends on your other expenses, mortgage, young kids, pints at weekends, holidays, partner working or not working

    I know some people that spend an extraordinary amount on cars but wouldnt be big on holidays etc



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    That would be your choice obviously. But surely you'd be prepared to pay extra tax for a Tesla Plaid so you could experience warp speed on the daily grind. Seems to me people have no particular issue paying a shed load of VRT to experience the thrills of driving larger, sportier ICEs but rail against any suggestion that equivalent EVs be taxed similarly.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Or perhaps we have a bit more awareness that the kWh size of battery isn't a great metric for either the performance, efficiency or impact of said EV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,106 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    SSo a 90kWh etron would be taxed less than a 100kWh model S, despite the latter being twice as efficienct as the former. BS



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,747 ✭✭✭traco


    I'd imagine power output will become a factor. Say 200hp equivalent KW (Average family Ioniq 5 ish level) will be around €350 per year with bands above and below. I can't see any arguement really against paying €1 per day motor tax for the private transport for the average family needs. Road usages will be in addition to that and weighted against ICE if they do come in.

    The potential issue with road usage will be how its managed for business uses, delivery drivers, trucks, taxis etc so while in simplistic terms it sounds good but the knock on cost implications and admin costs could be an issue that make a simpler motor tax based system easier to start with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    Sorry for upsetting you. Its only a suggestion. I know the current emissions based system has set such a high bar for perfection that it is difficult to conceive of a alternative system to replace it. Alternatively EV drivers may think that because they are an essential cog in the save thethey should be compensated for



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,825 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    There needs to be a correlation to efficiency, every EV has an efficiency factor so that could be the basis for taxation. Is this not pointless debate though, we're years away from a motor tax overhaul...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    Damn phone .. hit post in error! Why, oh why cant posts be edited like in the good auld days. Maybe technology is just not for me.

    Last sentence should read .. alternatively EV drivers may think that because they are an essential cog in the save the world wheel, they should be compensated for sacrificing themselves for the betterment of mankind. But in fairness that would just be silly so it must be the first reason



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The only person making claims of EV owner exceptionalism on this thread is you.

    The EV owners on the thread are making sensible suggestions that a simplistic system of kWh battery doesn't work because it results in higher taxation of cars with better efficiency and longer range. Similarly, a simple system of motor power output (similar to the old CC system) wouldn't work because performance is a function of power to weight rather than just power.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,633 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Taxation on fuel was always the most equitable way. The polluter pays. This was never implemented though as the politicians didn't have the balls to do it.That horse has bolted now, you can't tax electricity in the same way as there's no way of finding out what the electricity in people's houses was used for. So there are two options:

    1. just forgo the tax that is currently coming in from excise duty on fuel and emissions based motor tax and VRT and make up from it from elsewhere. This is pretty much what happened in 2008 when VRT and motor tax moved to an emission system. The loss to the exchequer was huge (billions per year), but was never replaced by another tax on motoring
    2. tax cars (as @liamog has rightly said, cars in general, not EVs in particular) in another way, probably per km driven. This is not easy to implement, many years away but by far the most likely and reasonably equitable option. Other countries in the EU have already committed to this. This works long term too as electricity is likely to become extremely cheap in a few decades, so very little point taxing it. Some people even say electricity will be free! 😍


This discussion has been closed.
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