Random EV thoughts.....

stesaurus

I think I have an idea what MightyMunster does in his spare time

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-car-owners-warned-man-25755318

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001004#Comment_120001004

If you ever needed proof that the world revolves around South Dublin; a dozen cars vandalised is considered newsworthy

There's parts of the city where that would be called a quiet evening 😜

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001647#Comment_120001647

But the story behind it is quite newsworthy isn't it? It's not run of the mill vandalism as we know it.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002206#Comment_120002206

It's vandalism with a note, I doubt the guy doing it had his opinions about cars suddenly changed in recent months

If anything he's causing more pollution because a bunch of tyres are probably going to landfill now which have plenty of life left

JohnC.

If he’s following standard Tyre Extinguisher procedure, the tyres aren’t damaged. They just have air let out and need to be pumped. They won’t be going to landfill for this.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987976#Comment_119987976

Did you buy that brand new?

cannco253

Car parking curbs and cutting mileage by 20% among Coalition plans to reduce emissions 

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/12/21/coalition-plans-to-clip-emissions-by-curbing-car-parking-and-cutting-mileage-by-20/

“Sources said that measures are being considered to improve the national infrastructure for electric vehicle (EV) charging, including a residential sharing scheme and a pilot programme for a shared charging smartphone app, as well as regional and local authority-level plans for accessible and low-cost charging.

Financial incentives for EV purchase will be reviewed, with a plan for an “en route” high-powered charging network, while a scheme for so-called “destination charge points” is to be developed in the likes of sports clubs, community centres and state-operated visitor sites.”

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020728#Comment_120020728

So the clown transport emmision reduction policy of the clown government is out.

As previously reported the target of one million electric vehicles on our roads by 2030 is being dropped in favour of ensuring a third of the total vehicles are electric, with the aim of 100pc of new vehicle registrations being EVs by 2030. There will also be a goal for EVs to make up 20pc of the total LGV fleet along with 95,000 commercial EVs.

Set a goal of 1M EVs by 2030 in 2015, then pretend you can meet it for 7 years while doing absolutely nothing for it, then with a stroke of a magic wand reduce the goal to a half, and set another pretend goal you can't meet (100% EV sales by 2030) and keep going. Comedy gold.

But it's also sad and disappointing. Ireland is probably the easiest place to roll out EVs in Europe (bar micro islands) being a small island with a relatively small distances between population centres (vs Norway or Sweden) and no through/transit traffic, and with the highest wind energy potential in EU which could be a huge synergy with EVs...

All the presently suggested transport emmision reduction solutions are unrealistic barring a massive investment in public transport (underground, light rail) which won't happen. Bicycles? Remove parking and give nothing in return? Walking?

unkel

@McGiver - "set another pretend goal you can't meet (100% EV sales by 2030)"

Agree with most of the rest of your post, but I'd have thought that one was easily achievable by just banning the sales of any combustion cars by 2030? Should have been 2025 anyway.

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021091#Comment_120021091

It's also a better goal, the million EVs was becoming unachievable without scrapping a load of perfectly good vehicles that are nowhere near end of life.

traco

Is there a public network charging goal to support the ICE ban. I know for many people it doesn't matter but for people who's job is on the road, service engineers, reps etc reliable fast charging will be required.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022371#Comment_120022371

In the free market we trust

Which is to say there's no plan worth speaking about

traco

I'm all for free market but its hardly a free market when a commercial user is forced to buy a vehicle that can't do the job. Surely a ban in ICE results in a decreased requirement for fuel pumps and there should be some mandate to replace them with charging to support the new transport needs.

It just seems like we have one half of the equation and not the other.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022430#Comment_120022430

You're being very generous to say we've got half the equation

Other countries that give a damn about their population are mandating things like minimum number of EV chargers in petrol stations, minimum power per charger and card payments

Meanwhile we still can't actually exchange money for EV charging, have to keep a library of charging cards and apps

I assume the idea is that any petrol stations that don't convert over to EV charging hubs will go out of business and be replaced with charging hubs

Calahonda52

I assume the idea is that any petrol stations that don't convert over to EV charging hubs will go out of business and be replaced with charging hubs.

Very much network and grid dependent which is not addressed in the Dec 2022 Hans Christian Action fantasy.

Avatar 2 is more believable.

the_amazing_raisin

To be fair Avatar 2 looks closer to reality than reality itself

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120022430#Comment_120022430

Could they not buy second hand if there wasn't a new EV suitable for the job?

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023233#Comment_120023233

A target to ban all forms of ICE will only be achievable if there is a ready supply of EVs replacements. Otherwise it is about as realistic as the ridiculous 1 million EV target. I'm sure though that there is substance to this latest series of targets, ie properly researched and sense checked with the industry rather than the usual pulled from someone's rear end type targets that Irish Government's are infamous for. I mean it's not like the Government isn't without significant influence over the international motor industry so that it can coerce it to produce the right type and volume of EVs needed to implement this lofty target.

traco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120023233#Comment_120023233

I can't find the number but there is a significant number of company fleet vehicles used to support various industries around the country. They won't buy secondhand and many lease from new as it makes financial sense. Reps, engineers, whatever on the road will need to be able to charge and charge quickly yet depart the mainline motorway network and that ability quickly fades. NI, Donegalm out West or SW the infrastructure just isn't there.

Is there a financial model that works for petrol stations to swicth to chargers? I know they don't make a lot (2-3%) on the fuel and rely on the shops so wonder how that model will transfer. Will they get similar on EV charges?

unkel

Before we all go scaremongering about reps and engineers and other professionals not being able to do their job in an electric car because the fast charging network is not up to speed, how many km per day do they do? Many EVs now have a realistic range of 400km, by 2030 that will very easily be 600-700km (some higher end EVs can already do that today)

How many cars regularly drive more than 700km in Ireland in a day purely for work? Must be a tiny, tiny minority of cars. And even today, they will likely have to stop to fill up with diesel on that day (or the next day) and take a leak and get a bite to eat. By 2030 they will have to do make that same stop, but then to fill up with electrons rather than diesel.

the_amazing_raisin

For anyone wondering about what will happen to petrol stations then I would take a look below

https://www.electrive.com/2022/12/21/almost-100-year-old-rotterdam-fuel-station-converts-to-charging-park/

Probably one of the oldest petrol stations in Europe has converted to a charging hub, 6x 300kW chargers with 2 plugs each

Walk around video

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OiDCoomw4gY&feature=youtu.be

So there'll be fuel providers that see which way the wind is blowing, and then there'll be the ones that go out of business

Over here, I'd say Applegreen is leading the way, Circle K is talking big but has yet to actually deploy any chargers.

Maxol is moaning about grid costs but installing a few hubs

Meanwhile Texaco and Certa apparently think the future is fracking or something. They're probably waiting for gaslight to make a big comeback 😂

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120024581#Comment_120024581

As is the case for private motorists, and even more so for businesses, the switchover to EVs will gain momentum when manufacturers produce a sufficient appropriate vehicles and it makes financial sense to do so. For the most part it already makes financial sense to switch but supply of suitable vehicles is a key factor in hampering the further roll out of EVs

traco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120024634#Comment_120024634

I know some easily doing 2-300km one way for a morning start and then onsite, may leave and head to another location, stay in a hotel and repeat. Sales guys do same or more and since the motorway network will try and head home rather than hotels. Many of the standard hotels don't have charging from what I see.

BTW, I'm only asking the question. I don't know how many guys are on the road but we have some and my competitors do also. Lots of small van couriers shttling stuff around the country also for emergency spare parts etc. There is still a resonable amount of manufacturing in the country all with capital equipment that needs maintaining, repairs, servicing etc.

I suppose what I am saying badly is that this sector is the high miler high polluter and would have a more significant impact if they could shift to EV than Mr Murphy who has a 15km commute to work yet there doesn't seem a plan to get fast DC charging everywhere, its a bit like the national broadband plan if you could even call it a plan.

unkel

Agree with the high miler polluter sector! One of the reasons it is absurd that companies can get the VAT back on diesel, but not on petrol

Anyway, is the ICE ban on new cars from 2030 also applicable to vans / trucks? I thought not?

It would be remarkably easy to swing majority of new car orders to EV overnight if there was political will. Double the VRT for cars emitting over say 10 gCO2/km every year from now on. Increase the motor tax rates for any new non-low emissions registrations every year (but keep the current rates intact for now). Remove VRT from vehicles between 0 and 9 gCO2/km. The latter would allow selling hybrids with very large batteries for people who genuinely need drive long distances in the areas without public charging. But it would very quickly stop sales of legacy vehicles to stop the consumer doing the wrong thing and buying a car with no future resale value.

Do VLTP emissions testing from cold with cabin temperatire set to 21'C to ensure the single digit CO2 vehicles actually work as as EVs for shorter trips without the engine kicking in for heating.

Ireland is such a small market that every manufacturer that wanted to continue selling vehicles here would just have to divert EVs here or cease to trade. Think Norway as the role model. Above would mean that the price parity of EVs and ICE would happen overnight. Instead of new ICE sales concentrate on after sales as it would be better to maintain the current ICE fleet and not to spend any more resources building soon to be obsolete cars.

All of the above would, of course, be shot down by lobbyists influencing the weak government. Why do you think we have that 231-reg nonsense?

traco

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120024886#Comment_120024886

Don't know about vans but might impact avaialbility of the small car based vans - thise were really only a BIK loop hole job to me any way.

The commercial car user market, ex lease if managed right could be used to create a decent used supply for private buyers. Commercial use is the ideal feeder system as more expensive EV will not cost more per month in total running costs even with Ionity charging costs when everything is worked out over three years.

The BIK changes mighy speed to process up but for high milers the changes don't impact much. The charging though is critcal as people just want to get home after a long day. I hear what you are saying but the ICE reality is that the stop, fill, WC, coffee, sambo and on the road. 15 mins and if they have the fuel and don't need the WC they drive on.

They current plans just seem to missing a trick - they need a bit of if you build it they will come thinking and not if they come we might build it.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120024900#Comment_120024900

I would also be in favour of a more rapid changeover to EV from ICE. However we do need to recognise that not everybody can afford a new car and while the TCO might make sense, there are a lot of people living month to month in Ireland and who aren't in a financial position to buy with either new or 2nd hand EV. There are probably many who could, if they had assistance in arranging finance.

We have to be mindful of the law of unintended consequences. Constraining the number of new ICEs being sold while there is a less than adequate supply of new EVs will lead to a reduction in the supply and in increase in price of 2nd hand ICEs. I would also be wary of making comparisons to Norway. Besides being an awfully boring place to live :), they are a petro-state with huge financial resources and a difficult model to follow even for well-off Ireland.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120024886#Comment_120024886

There's already electric vans and trucks available, and some hydrogen trucks for longer distances. If commercial vehicles aren't included in the 2030 ban then I imagine they will be soon, or they won't be far behind

unkel

@josip - nobody is forced to buy any new EVs from 2030 onwards. People have until 2046 to switch over. By then a second hand early Leaf will probably cost about €500 and have 3km range left 😂 Fully charge from your solar PV panels for free in no more than 5 minutes 🤣

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120024849#Comment_120024849

Well I imagine they'll stop for a charge, same as they do now with fuel

We're seeing the tipping point now that commercial operators are seeing they can make money from EV charging. I would say what we've seen from Applegreen in the last 6 months has trumped what ESB have done in the past 3 years

Your travelling salesman or sole trader will pop out at lunch (or send the apprentice) to charge the van and grab breakfast rolls and coffees for everyone