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Random EV thoughts.....

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,825 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    The UK with their hugely popular 3 year PCP deals occasionally flood the used market upsetting prices, we are different here and also on the cusp of possible grant change so this will support high used prices for EVs for the next 6months or so IMHO



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Got to use the new door opening from the app button today which means it doesn't matter if the handle is frozen 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,178 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    I just followed the Tesla procedure and gave each door handle a thwack with the butt of my fist and it worked a charm…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,432 ✭✭✭markpb


    How does that work? Do the door handles have electronic actuators to push them open from the inside?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    It's the same as pressing the button on the inside of the door, electronic switch drops the window and unlocks door you just have to push it then. From outside it popped open a few cms. Only came out a few weeks ago


    https://youtu.be/DIsC3vTxEJg



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    Sure words have a meaning but applying a lower rate of tax on a specific product / service so as to differentiate it from similar products / services in order to stimulate demand effectively means the taxpayer is subsidising this product / service



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Subsidy refers the transfer of money to the provider of the good/service to make to make it available at a lower price. Taxation measures are the opposite, you impose a tax to increase the cost of an item.

    It's wrong to claim that you are effectively subsiding a product by charging a lower rate of tax, as to do so makes the word subsidy completely meaningless for any item in a market other than the one that has the highest rates of tax and duties. You would not say we effectively subsidise the purchase of sausages because they have lower tax than a packet of cigarettes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,432 ✭✭✭markpb


    creedp specificity said it’s a subsidy if the tax rate differs between two similar products. An ICE and an EV are similar and one attracts lower tax rates. Sausages and cigarettes are not similar products so no one is comparing their tax treatment.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    You also wouldn't say we subsidise cars based on the motor tax emissions band. Are we saying that every vehicle that doesn't pay the highest motor tax band of €1809 is subsidised by the government?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,322 ✭✭✭obi604


    Went to plug in my car there at the house and the cable is fairly rigid/frozen. Not totally frozen and a small bit of give in it.

    Is it dangerous to charge the car when the cable is like this?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,001 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I think it should be fine, as the cable carries current it'll warm up and loosen out

    Might be worth checking the specs on the charger and cable to be safe

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭CoBo55


    I wouldn't think it can do you or the car any harm I'm sure all these possibilities are catered for when designing the cables and sockets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭innrain


    Not really all but a good bit considering they test these cars at the Arctic circle.

    Not so sure they cater for pouring boiling water onto the plastic bits as it is customary here but let's hope they did



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,988 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Just came down to my local taxi rank...sorry charger to top up.

    I'm moving to a house next year with no off street parking so regrettably the car will have to go. Finding a free charger in Dublin now is like getting 6 numbers on the lotto.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    What's the craic with this, are these taxis running 24/7 with multiple drivers? Have been in a few EV taxis and they all said they don't need to charge during their work day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,001 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    No chance of getting a charger installed? Is it street parking or a private car park?

    If it's the latter I've heard that you can have some success, unfortunately the councils apparently say no to everything

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,222 ✭✭✭creedp


    A bit of 'pedantism' going on here I think. Reality is that the Govt has always considered private cars to be luxury items and a cash cow and taxed them heavily. This was long before we cottoned on to justifying this policy on environmental grounds.

    In my uncomplicated mind if the Govt decides to incentivise the sale of EVs by either giving a grant to people who purchase them or exempting them from tax, the outcome is the same. Tax revenues will either be used to subsidise the price of the car or tax revenues will be reduced in order to achieve the same result. In any case it will only be a temporary measure as the Govt will want to quickly replace the revenue forgone from this traditional cash cow and will come up with another means to heavily tax privately owned EVs. Enjoy it whole it lasts



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,825 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    "In any case it will only be a temporary measure as the Govt will want to quickly replace the revenue forgone from this traditional cash cow and will come up with another means to heavily tax privately owned EVs."


    i.e. Smart Metering



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Our old systems was very much a system of taxation as a luxury good with engine size standing in for value. The emissions systems tried to set the tax based on impact of usage. I expect the next system will seek to replace the annual taxation and consumption tax with a system of road usage. Designing a system will be complex and we'll likely wait until after another European country (probably the UK) do so.

    I would expect for road usage to be introduced to all vehicles and result in extra taxes on ICE vehicles as a further disincentive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,371 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Would you not just include with the NCT? They check mileage there anyway, if the car is sold in between the new owner picks up the tab at the next NCT.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,001 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I guess the argument against that is that the NCT is only after 4 years for a new car and then every 2 years until a car is 10 years old

    So fair enough, you get 3 years tax free but then in the 4th year you get busted for €500 in tax on top of the NCT cost (assuming that average mileage corresponds roughly to the lowest tax rate of €120)

    Wipes another €500 of the resale value of any 2nd harm car coming off PCP at least which will annoy people

    Not to mention the difficulty to track and possibility for tax evasion, there'll be a phone app for hacking your mileage before the tax even came into effect

    My bet will be a tax by vehicle size. You buy a little Fist 500, low taxes for you. You want a big SUV or pickup, then get ready to curse the revenue office (more than before)

    On top of that they're also floating the idea of motorway tolls based on the number of exits, which will probably make toll roads a lot more profitable, in turn generating more tax revenue and unloading the road maintenance expenses from the government

    Between those I imagine any hole in the public finances will be filled

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,178 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    A reasonably well written article on RTE explaining about EV efficiency, and how with improved charging network, bigger batteried less efficient EV’s will not be needed..




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,531 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Who can actually afford an EV on an average salary? I've been looking. Earn 60K a year. Anything that looks half decent seems to be in the 50K+ mark.

    Madness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,001 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Supply and demand dude, that's how markets work. I'd prefer if they were cheaper too but I don't get to decide

    FWIW, there are other options than a top spec long range EV. 2nd hand market usually has a few winners and a bunch of EVs are going to be finishing up PCP in the next year which will increase supply

    Also, you can afford a new EV on 60k per year, because I could afford one on 50k per year 😉

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,178 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Yeah, I was on a tad under €60k when I bought a new Tesla back in 2020…. easily doable on €60k



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Depends on what you need from a car, there are a lot of options starting in the mid-30s. We're still very early in the adoption cycle, the only volume on the market is new cars, it's going to be a couple of years before they push down to a sustainable used market.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,531 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Thanks lads. I'm not sure that I'd fully trust a second half E car either. I'd need something reasonably big. Currently driving an estate. Budget is max 45k.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,001 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    €41k gets you a Kia E-Niro


    All the range and space you're likely to need and if anything goes wrong then it's Kia's problem for the next 6 years

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭innrain


    If you can get one that is, MG5 is in the budget

    Opel Astra got launched few weeks ago but no word of the Irish prices. In the UK around 35k 40k sterling




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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,262 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Very different to the experience here, research has found that due to revenue decoupling regulations in California that EV owners are resulting in lower utility bills for everyone. The equalising of energy usage across the day is leading to more efficient use of grid infrastructure.




This discussion has been closed.
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