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Anti-vax/science/lockdown folks facing consequences in the courts

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Well, they tried to but as can be seen by the charges against them, they were unsuccessful in their ignorance



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Despotisms come about not because our liberty is forcibly taken by tyrants but because people voluntarily surrender their liberty in return for protection from some perceived threat and it’s in the interests of governments to exaggerate these threats in order to procure compliance.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not sure you understand what they are doing. Maybe read the article linked earlier. Should clarify the situation for you



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Have you a list of Irish laws where your liberty was forcibly removed from you or do you make it up as you go along?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Read my post again, I said "not" forcibly taken...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You said they were unsuccessful in their ignorance? What exactly were they unsuccessful in, either they've been convicted of their alleged breaches of the 1947 Health Act or they lost their High Court claim? Which one were they unsuccessful in?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Apologies. I was too busy munching on something to focus on your post.

    What I meant was have you a list of irish laws where the government has managed to induce compliance through the fear of a potential threat?


    If the threat is real and it may lead to the death of people, potentially thousands of people, is it despotic or socially right to impose some form of protective rules?

    In what way did the Irish government exaggerate the threat from Covid-19?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You really do seem to be struggling with how the legal system works, you should look into that



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,874 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    For one the mandatory hotel quarantining to return to ones own country was a legal restriction on people's freedoms based on a threat that did not hold up to reality. Even at the time many were pointing out that MHQ was a pointless endeavour and that covid was going to get into the country regardless and ultimately the whole quarantining on entry would prove worthless - and that is what happened in the end.

    MHQ was wound up as covid infections were getting into the country and spreading domestically regardless of border controls. We almost went even further too - dont forget the likes of Paul Murphy and many more pushing for a zero-covid island. History has proven that strategy to be a failure, even in authoritarian China.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Please enlighten me because I don't think you know what you meant yourself other than trying to make a smart comment which has blown up in your face.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How many instances do you need, Lockdown, masks, SD, 5km, 2 metre, Vaccine passport. At one stage it was illegal to leave your home without a valid reason. All this for a virus that at least 99% of people infected survive, most without experiencing any symptoms.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,032 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    All this for a virus that at least 99% of people infected survive, most without experiencing any symptoms.

    Did you volunteer to be one of the 1%?


    Hindsight is marvellous, isn't it? Anyhow, I'm done with your nonsense.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No hindsight needed, the IFR was known from the outset.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,916 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    How could the IFR possibly have been known from the outset?

    Have you any idea what a ridiculous statement that is?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sure thing, you keep asking about convictions when they are fighting the charges. Convictions have not been handed down as the charges are still to be heard by a judge.

    To put it another way, you are asking how the turkey tastes before the oven has even been pre-heated



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,945 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Hindsight is not required here.

    MHQ was brought in a year after the first lockdown and the statistics on Covid were already clear. It was not a novel virus any more. Moreover the most vulnerable were already vaccinated at this stage which makes it even more of a nonsense. The fact is that MHQ only served to appease a rabid media which had scapegoated travel (Remember the RTE cameras are the airport in January 2021?) and a ‘Zero Covid’ pushing opposition which was influenced by a corrupt ISAG.

    in the end MHQ served only to punish normal people, line the pockets of a few hoteliers and cost the tax payer a packet. It certainly did not help lower Covid rates. It was the most disgraceful, useless and illogical measure brought in using emergency powers during The whole 2 period of lockdowns IMO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,799 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Lockdowns - Were temporary and required. Most countries had some form of lockdown or partial lockdown.

    Masks - No-brainer. We had masks during the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic also.

    Social distancing - It's an infectious disease, goes without saying

    5km - Temporary rule to curb spread of the virus

    Vaccine passports - Majority of the public supported them

    Repeated polls showed a majority of the public supported these measures.

    All this for a virus that at least 99% of people infected survive, most without experiencing any symptoms.

    It still killed over 6 million people. The strongest measures were generally to protect our national healthcare systems from being swamped, especially early on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,550 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    All this for a virus that at least 99% of people infected survive, most without experiencing any symptoms.

    So 1% die? Thats 78 million people.

    Astonishing some people were ok for that to happen. The deaths of 78 million people.

    And are still banging on about it in winter of the year of our Lord 2022.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It was not a novel virus any more. 

    If you understood what that meant you would understand thats its silly to even mention it as it has no bearing on, well, anything



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s a simple question. You said they were unsuccessful in their ignorance. What were they unsuccessful in exactly?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Avoiding being charged

    Do keep up

    Really, you should go and read the story, it would help with your understanding of the issue.

    I'll not be answering anymore questions that can be answered by reading the details yourself



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    Did not bother reading I wager he did not mention a place with the lowest uptake of the covid vaccine ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Turned out that the death rate got a lot higher if the health system was allowed to collapse, as it did in Italy. When that happened, people who didn't even have covid started dying too who would normally have survived. It's amazing that there appear to be so many keyboard heroes willing to play russian roulette with strangers' lives.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You can't prove a negative. The date rate got alot higher if the the health system was allowed to collapse???

    Which is it, did the death rate increase or did the health system collapse?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    You only have to look at places that didn't lockdown and very quickly you'll see that there is no-corelation between the severity of a lockdown and the following result so there was no requirement for lockdowns and there is no real world evidence that they "worked". Likewise with the 5km rule. You have to be able to provide evidence that the interventions you introduce are effective. You cannot say, if we didn't lockdown it would have been worse. That's like asking someone to prove God doesn't exist. You need to be able to prove that lockdowns, masks are effective at controlling the spread which they were not. You have to appreciate how tiny a virus is. When you have an active viral infection you could be breathing out 10 million viral particles per breath. The idea that walking two meters behind someone in a supermarket and not breath in the same air is nonsense. The fact is that lockdowns do not work. If we were all to be sedated, locked in wooden boxes permanently and fed by robots then that might work.

    Public opinion is notoriously fickle and public induced by fear is even more fickle. Moreover, there is a well know phenomenon that the way people answer questions by pollsters does not always represent the way they actually behave. Ireland was full of people who approve of the measures but were making their own risk assessment and not always acting consistent with the lockdowns they approved of.

    As for the 6 million death toll, not going to get into this again but was it with/of etc. But you only have to look at the death rates in Ireland for the 2 years during covid which were same if not lower than previous years. Lockdown advocates will say "if it wasn't for lockdowns..." but that doesn't stand up to scrutiny because if you remove the people who were supposed to have died from covid those two years it means that the death rate in Ireland would have been significantly lower than average. For that to be true it would mean that people would have to of stopped dying from cancer, heart disease etc which we also know isn't true. Even if you don't accept what just said, just look at places that didn't lock down and there was no material difference in their death rate from previous years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Read for comprehension. No need to prove a negative, at all.

    As I said, the health system collapsed in northern Italy and the death rates (from everything, not just covid) went into the stratosphere.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,170 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    "They would have died of something else soon-ish anyway" Amazing how callous some people can be.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,285 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    I thought the evidence from Sweden would have been enough proof for even the most ardent lowdown supporters.

    I suppose as an old friend always said, its much easier to fool folk than explain to them how they have been fooled.

    Fair play to those lads fighting their case in court its very important for democracy.

    The amount of people that place no value whatsoever in democracy is alarming. Lord Jonathan Sumption speaks with great concern about where we are heading.

    Also, Ireland had some of the longest strictest lockdown's of all countries in the Western world (despite one of the youngest age profiles and lowest population densities), and its very important guys like these fight and win these cases.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    I get that some people are at least trying to make a coherent argument, but when this kind drivel starts to get pushed out...makes me glad I am on the total opposite of the argument.



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