Anti-vax/science/lockdown folks facing consequences in the courts

Markus Antonius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935817#Comment_119935817

So many in this thread are the living embodiment of this meme:

And yet I'm sure most of you are also in the China lockdown thread with bleeding hearts for the protesters fighting against their tyrannical oppressors.. 🙄

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119937773#Comment_119937773

We're not having to wait too long to see the impacts. Just 2 examples. Hopefully these help quantify it for you.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/29/quarter-teenagers-who-lived-lockdowns-now-have-mental-health/

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-vs/vitalstatisticssecondquarter2022/

live4tkd

Deleted

live4tkd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119937773#Comment_119937773

Every week there is something coming out about consequences on mental health, unexplained excess death increase, missed diagnosis, cancelled screenings, economic costs etc.

There was no analysis done at all to the damage this would do it was myopically focused on Covid even though and god help anyone that would dare suggest anything else. The interview by the current UK PM in the Spectator told a lot: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-lockdown-files-rishi-sunak-on-what-we-werent-told/

‘I wasn’t allowed to talk about the trade-off,’ says Sunak. Ministers were briefed by No. 10 on how to handle questions about the side-effects of lockdown. ‘The script was not to ever acknowledge them. The script was: oh, there’s no trade-off, because doing this for our health is good for the economy.’

‘We didn’t talk at all about missed [doctor’s] appointments, or the backlog building in the NHS in a massive way. That was never part of it.’ When he did try to raise concerns, he met a brick wall. ‘Those meetings were literally me around that table, just fighting. It was incredibly uncomfortable every single time.’ He recalls one meeting where he raised education. ‘I was very emotional about it. I was like: “Forget about the economy. Surely we can all agree that kids not being in school is a major nightmare” or something like that. There was a big silence afterwards. It was the first time someone had said it. I was so furious.’

Lockdown – closing schools and much of the economy while sending the police after people who sat on park benches – was the most draconian policy introduced in peacetime. No. 10 wanted to present it as ‘following the science’ rather than a political decision, and this had implications for the wiring of government decision-making. It meant elevating Sage, a sprawling group of scientific advisers, into a committee that had the power to decide whether the country would lock down or not. There was no socioeconomic equivalent to Sage; no forum where other questions would be asked.

I suspect it was the very same here and will come out in time.

As I said I understand the initial lockdown but what happened subsequently turned ridiculous and too political, being locked down for so long then opening at peak infection time. All of this has been hashed out on multiple threads!

Thanks to omicron and the vaccines we are out of the worst of it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938459#Comment_119938459

Cool story, what does any of that have to do with your anti-lockdown friends losing their court cases...... repeatedly

All of this has been hashed out on multiple threads!

Good point, maybe we'll leave this one for highlighting the many, many, many lost cases so

live4tkd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938492#Comment_119938492

They are not my friends by the way! They broke the law of the land so must face the consequences as any other citizen does in this country.

I followed the rules as did many. It does not negate the fact that some of the laws were ridiculous and nonsense!

But cool response though!

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938264#Comment_119938264

I can't read your first link because it is paywalled.

What exactly in your CSO link am I to take that backs up the point that the lockdowns were "Utter insanity and stupidity which we will all pay for years to come" - maybe you can pull out a few quotes for us?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938459#Comment_119938459

Every week there is something coming out about consequences on mental health, unexplained excess death increase, missed diagnosis, cancelled screenings, economic costs etc!

Ok so it should be easy for you to show me some evidence that back up your claims.

There was no analysis done at all to the damage this would do it was myopically focused on Covid even though and god help anyone that would dare suggest anything else.

In terms of the analysis (or lack of) - what is your allegation based on? Do you work for the Dept of Health and working alongside or with NPHET?

As I said I understand the initial lockdown but what happened subsequently turned ridiculous and too political, being locked down for so long then opening at peak infection time and the hysteria that was related to that. All of this has been hashed out on multiple threads!

There were political decisions made in terms of lifting restrictions too early so that people could go to pubs at Christmas so I'm not sure how that plays into your conspiracy theory. I don't recall hysteria though but maybe I was focused on not catching something that possibly would have killed me with my underlying health condition. I was also conscious of the many people who did die from the virus including relatives of mine but thankfully despite so many selfish tossers, the numbers that died were not much higher.

Thanks to omicron and the vaccines we are out of the worst of it.

erm, you've posted this a few times but Omicron was a variant of the virus! Maybe you're not quite sure of what you're posting here? Here, inform yourself...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SARS-CoV-2_Omicron_variant

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938544#Comment_119938544

From the CSO link, excess deaths in Q2 2022 up by 39.2% compared to 2021, 23% compared to 2018, 24% compared to 2019, 9% compared to 2020. If you still can't grasp the impact of our reaction to Covid in terms of restrictions then I really can't help you.

Different link for Telegraph story:

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1703186/mental-health-teenagers-covid-nhs-news-latest

Hotblack Desiato

Why are certain people still going on and on about lockdowns which are long over and have already been debated endlessly?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935817#Comment_119935817

He told the WRC that he had been advised by his neurosurgeon not to get vaccinated against Covid-19 but provided no evidence to support such a claim.

Yeah, I'm so not buying that.

Reminiscent of the guys years ago who tried to insist they were refusing to wear a seatbelt on "medical advice", it all looks rather stupid from the perspective of years later doesn't it?

live4tkd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938544#Comment_119938544

This has been rehashed multiple times on boards and I am not going over it again!

I said they were utter stupidity and insanity not anyone else i.e. its my opinion as there was no nuance to them. There is no conspiracy here just the response was pure reactionary and political! I do agree with the first one but after that they went on far too long and opened up in the winter peak flu season! They turned too political in response to hysteria from certain quarters. There was no nuance to them.

It annoys me we cannot be allowed to debate with civility or criticise the pandemic response because we are regarded as `you lot` conspiracy theorists or anti vaxxers in some cases. Indeed there are some but I am not one of them. I followed the rules too as I have loved ones to protect too and thankfully they avoided it for as long as possible! But I made that decision to do that as I have done for years and I don`t expect everybody to do the same or the world to stop to protect my loved ones. But I am allowed to criticise the response too!

I am trying to be reasonable in my response as I do not want to be banned so I ask that you be reasonable too and less patronising or I will not engage anymore.

Hotblack Desiato

F'kin hell. This is what happens when very very stupid people get access to arms and explosives.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/world/arid-41018201.html

A police officer and two civilians have died after a suicide bomber blew himself up near a truck carrying police officers on their way to protect polio workers near Quetta in Pakistan.

The bombing also wounded 23 others, mostly policemen.

Senior officer Ghulam Azfer Mehser said the attack happened as the policemen were heading to the polio workers, part of a nationwide vaccination drive launched on Monday.

Militants falsely claim that vaccination campaigns are a Western conspiracy to sterilise children.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119937781#Comment_119937781

Says the hardcore conspiracy theorist who lives in perpetual fear of conspiracies that don't exist.

This has been an issue with measures against the virus, unfortunately there's a segment of people in society who are highly susceptible to conspiratorial thinking and have interpreted measures as something else. It's no coincidence that these types of people are typically anti-mask, anti-vaccine, etc.

There will always be a portion of people who are, sorry to say it, dangerously stupid. It's one of the reasons why e.g. wearing a seat-belt is compulsory.

As for your other comment, we don't have a zero-Covid policy and we don't live in a Communist country, so it's irrelevant to us.

farmingquestion

Western people protest lockdowns = racist, far right, conspiracy theorists

Chinese people protest lockdowns = brave, need to support them.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119939067#Comment_119939067

False equivalence.

We don't have lockdowns here anymore, because the situation has changed, China does. We don't have a zero Covid policy, China does. China is the only country in the world presently doing this.

If we had a lockdown now, I would be against it, most of the country would be against it, why? Because it's an entirely different situation.

Therefore we can emphathise and understand why people in China are against lockdowns at this stage.

ligerdub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119939237#Comment_119939237

You wouldn't be.

It's funny how people can suddenly hypothesize their reaction in a specific scenario yet in a near identical scenario they openly state they actually did something else. Face it, people acted in with the cosy consensus and took great pleasure in throwing shame and suggesting all sorts of hideous repercussions for those who had a different view. The defence mechanism to this was ultimately false claims of "the science" or some other claim that was also found out to be bogus.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119939262#Comment_119939262

The situations weren't near identical, that's a false premise.

2020, new virus, global pandemic, cases (and deaths) were threatening national health systems - countries had partial and temporary full lockdowns to reduce cases/deaths and pressure on their systems.

2022, situation is different and under control. Lockdowns are not required.

It's simple logic. Did I support a lockdown in 2020? Of course. Would I support one now? Of course not. Completely different situations.

Do I support people wearing masks in 2020? Of course. Do I support mandated mask wearing now? No. Different situations.

It's basic logic and common sense.

Unfortunately some people are unable to apply either to the situation. To understand why this is, it's best to (again) use the analogy of seat-belts. When seat-belt fines or laws were introduced, there was a huge public backlash in certain countries. This is because a portion of people were unable to look at the situation with logic and common sense, they instead perceived it as an "attack" on their "freedom", as something political.

It's hard not to notice the same position from most people who are anti-vaccine, anti-mask and anti-lockdown.

This is not to be confused normal criticism of lockdowns, differences over details. It's to do with people who have an agenda, a stance, one that isn't rooted in logic. The type of people who put the word science in quotations.

farmingquestion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119939237#Comment_119939237

What's your point exactly?

Each government does things the way they thought was best. Just because the west did it one way, doesn't mean THAT'S the way it should be done everywhere.

You talk about situations changing. We had one of the strictest lockdowns in Europe. The situation in Ireland was no different other parts of Europe that eased lockdowns yet Tony demanded pubs had to close at 5pm etc.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119939350#Comment_119939350

My point should be clear from my post.

If you have a problem over the specifics or details, that's normal, we all did. That e.g. pubs should have been closed in X month instead of Y month, etc.

The issue is that there are people who are actually against the common sense measures themselves. The wearing of masks. The use of vaccines. That kind of thing.

When e.g. the Spanish flu epidemic broke in 1918, we had masks, we had social distancing, we had lockdowns. That's because these are common sense ways of tackling an outbreak of an infectious airborne disease. It makes no sense to just be "against" those tools, that is the equivalent of people who are "against" seatbelts. That's my point.

As for the situation in China. The pandemic around the world has largely subsided. Therefore the vast majority of countries have eased restrictions. There is one country that hasn't; China. They have incorporated a controversial "zero-Covid" policy. That policy is the issue. It's the only country I'm aware that has it.

Some people who are against measures on principle are using that policy as a vector to attack lockdowns/masks/whatever in general, which is absurd.

Unfortunately certain people who are very vocal about the specifics of e.g. mask policy can get lumped into the same category as people who are against masks. To be fair, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference between the two.

Again, I'm not pro or anti lockdown. It's a tool, one that has known drawbacks. It can be implemented partially. If a new disease emerges tomorrow, spreads everywhere, starts threatening our national health systems, then indeed, if other measures aren't working, and depending on the factors, we might indeed need to implement temporary partial or full lockdowns.

ligerdub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119939321#Comment_119939321

Yeah I'm not reading any of that. I'm not wasting any more of my time on this farcical story.

Look, people revealed themselves to their true character over the last 2 years. I sleep well at night in the knowledge that I never instructed anyone on their behaviour or ostracised anyone for their personal decisions. Others took a different option. They can try and rationalise it away but they know the truth....and they have to live with that. Essentially they were collaborators. They followed the consensus laid out for them....and are doing it again now with the situation in China. The only difference now is that they've been given the green light to support the "anti-lockdown folks" (title of this thread remember) this time around.

Good luck.

Hotblack Desiato

Oh, some revealed their true character all right. "I'll do what I want and f**k everyone else" and that will not soon be forgotten.

dwayneshintzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119939067#Comment_119939067

Almost as if they're wildly different situations, isn't it?

Or are you comparing conditions in China to what you had to endure in the West?

Hotblack Desiato

This mythical support in Ireland for Chinese protestors appears to be coming out of the same orifice as "all the liberals in Ireland support Islam"

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119941946#Comment_119941946

Wow. You don't read my response but you reply to it. Okay. You then go and label the public as "collaborators" in what I can only describe as an Alex Jones style comment. Also anyone can differentiate between health rules during a pandemic and this controversial zero-Covid policy in China after the pandemic.

The vast majority of Irish people followed practical health rules and guidelines during the pandemic. Over 95% of Irish adults are vaccinated. Unfortunately there was a fringe minority who railed against common sense, and now we're seeing this persecution complex thing from them.

Hangdogroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058221215/anti-vax-science-lockdown-folks-facing-consequences-in-the-courts

Horrible tramp that fella.

Seth Brundle

feckin eejits!

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1600025517410775040?s=20&t=cAeDTbLoX236rYmi7OaQlQ

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963245#Comment_119963245

Court has ordered that the baby be taken into temporary custody, for the medical procedure, basically to save it's life. The parents wanted to be able to "choose" unvaccinated blood, absolute basket-cases.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119942721#Comment_119942721

Your and others' willingness to be controlled and micro-managed in every aspect of your life and to foist that on other people with stupid slogans like 'Heroes Stay at Home' shows your infantile mentality.

As I recall many people were throwing parties the whole time and by the last Level 5 lockdown traffic in Dublin was chock-a-block, as lockdowns were being generally ignored, and only diehard internet-addicts were still camped at home while normal people were socialising and going about their business.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966581#Comment_119966581

It's nothing to do with "controlling" a person, it's about controlling a virus.

Individuals keep conflating standard measures during a global pandemic with some nefarious attempts to "interfere" with them. It's a form of personal paranoia.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119966607#Comment_119966607

Standard my hole.

Are you now going to link me to that National Geographic article that says that they closed the cinemas and cafes in Philadelphia and a handful of cities for a few weeks in winter 1918?

You would start wearing your shoes on your head if a bureaucratic consensus could be produced saying you're meant to.