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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    The Scorpion is a good machine. But I thought they had been retired? Or are they just gathering dust in an auld shed in the Curragh?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,866 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    He refers to the Air Corps as a Motley collection, a term meaning disparate and disorganised. That strikes me as an insult to the men and women who work hard every day with what they have, to make sure they are anything but.

    The remainder of the article presumes to suggest that, irrespective of current order of battle, Ireland's century old defence policies are basically frivolous and indulgent. The same policies which, even with a tinder box of civil disorder in the North, kept us the hell out the Cold War proxy battles.

    Don't you think the f***in Marxists wouldn't have invited the Soviets in here if they had had the chance during the worst of it? Cuba, right in the British isles. Our neutrality was the only thing which made us an honest broker, kept people in the Republic safe.

    Yes, Sweden and Finland are in convulsions with a complete change in stance, but they are land bordered with Russia. Its different for them in every way.

    Other than that, Drea's diatribe dismisses and disparages every political and geopolitical reality which brought Ireland to where it is. He ignores their historical existence.

    Its a sh1t article, terribly written, imbalanced and poorly researched and populated.

    Our military equipment is poor? Why thank you Dr Drea, why don't you tell us something we don't f***in know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,326 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    If you really believe our neutrality protected us from the marxists, I have a nice bridge to sell you. You seem to forget that Aeroflot had a hub in Shannon, and their heavy transport Antonov were based there until the early 2000s. We had actual marxists in the Dail! P-p-p-pick up a prionsias was known to Gardai as Frank Ross during his time with the IRA. He retired having been Minister for flippin Social Welfare.

    Our Long range SAR was done up to the early 90ss, by the RAF and the RN. The RN may not have been welcome in our Ports, but they were active in our Waters. The Tuskar air crash was proof of this. They had a frigate off the Wexford coast days before the Irish navy appeared.

    We wore Green uniforms so the OPFOR on the border would recognise us as friendlies. Israel did not consider us Neutral in UNIFIL. Most Resupply trips went to Haifa, not Beiruit or Tyre. (Beirut would have been controlled by the US back then).

    We have no defence or security policy. We have not had since the Emergency. None.

    The Air Corpse is disparate and disorganised.

    We have 8 Armed TP tandem seat trainer while ALL other aircraft are twin seat. Makes no sense, and is of next to no combat use, apart from shooting unprotected stationary ground targets. People learning to fly on oxygen with G-suits, and having no aircraft to advance to that that equipment is required.

    2 Helis intended as trainers use different engines to the 2 helis of same type flown by Air Corpse for GASU (but maintained by civvy contractors)

    6 Utility helis that are painted green but used primarily in civilian roles. You can put a machine gun in the side window if you want to, but you won't be deploying them overseas so it's difficult to understand what the point was.

    4 Single engine TP transports, 3 of which are equipped to act as ISTAR but only 2 equipped with at any one time. A fifth was refused because we had nowhere to park them.

    2 unarmed Maritime Patrol Aircraft, shortly to be replaced with a modern version of the same type, offering very little new capability.

    And of course a single VIP transport which lacks transatlantic range.

    Zero military capability. Everyone in the defence forces wishes it wasn't that way. Someone saying it is is not an insult to them, but to those making the decisions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,866 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    What are you, his mother?

    I don't argue with the bare facts, it is though, as I said, a sh1t article.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,326 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    And you are entitled to your opinion, which I believe to be misguided.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    We have plenty of military jails in the US, but jail time is not the major deterrent from going AWOL (even though you will be arrested if AWOL and pulled over for speeding when on the family vacation or whatever. You will then be shipped to a base for outprocessing in most cases, court-martial in certain ones).

    What is the deterrent (other than social ostracisation) for quitting mid-contract is the loss of benefits and denial of opportunity. The US military isn't badly paid by any stretch of the imagination, but things like the VA mortgage have a benefit far greater than a large increase in pay on the civilian side. You want to buy a house? Zero dollar deposit required with a VA loan. On the civilian side, you usually need to fork over 20% on day 1 and pay a higher rate. Similarly, good luck getting a job with, say, the civil service. You reneged on the government once, you won't get a second chance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If the the state offeref a VA style Mortage here it would help recruitment and retention



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    Not to mention RAF/RN Seakings very welcome in Ireland, landing frequently in Irish Hospitals & Airports & had very strong links with the RNLI/MRT's over here..



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,866 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    What has search and rescue got to do with neutrality??

    During the Cold War we had instances where NATO and Soviet ships and aircraft landed and berthed in Ireland in connection with searches for stricken vessels and planes, obviously the most frequent being British Sea Kings and Nimrods, who assisted us hundreds of times when we didn't have the air assets to conduct an open ocean search.

    Indeed LÉ Róisín was nearly sunk by damage sustained in phenomenal seas en route to the Canadian hunter-killer sub Chicoutimi, fire damaged and adrift far out off Mayo in 2004.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The Poor auld 139s are out the door working

    https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2022/1113/1335878-achill-island/



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭Psychlops




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    The air corps airlifted customs to the site. The 139s are never out of the air. AC112 must also be draining the life out of the air frames



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Given how limited they are, I’m ok with this tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,326 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Maybe they'll have to replace them with proper military helis...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Would a mix not work. Have standard ones we have now for domestic operations and have 3 full military spec for any potential overseas mission.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,866 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    You know they'll just replace them with more civvy spec and paint them dark grey instead of green.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Not us exactly but defence related as H&W is going to see some investment and work:

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/belfast-shipyard-chosen-to-build-new-naval-supply-vessels/



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,866 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Of course it is, the DUP being thrown a bone before the bus comes.

    They'll be able to argue that HW couldn't possibly get work in a United Ireland because Ireland doesn't have a big military industrial complex to supply it.

    Which will ignore the fact that Harlands hasn't had a tap of shipbuilding work, of any kind, since 2002.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,326 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Meanwhile the Tory Tabloids are livid because its the Spanish led consortium that won the competition (Navantia Design house, but assembly and most construction is all either in Appledore or Belfast.) Fair to say the other British yards are hardly short of Naval work at present.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    If the Mali Mission goes to Fu@k will the DOD have Hertz on speed dial to hire a few cars?

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/9759386/ireland-plans-follow-uks-lead-wont-pull-soldiers-mali/



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    It looks like the air corps are going to be long term penpals with the USAF

    https://www.dvidshub.net/news/433662/20th-air-force-prepares-mh-139-with-visit-ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,866 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I still find it quite bizarre that the tie-up is with the 20th Air Force, whose Helicopter Group is entirely tasked with support and safety operations for the United States whole land based ICBM force.

    A very odd fit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭sparky42


    It's certainly an interesting connection isn't it? You wonder what backroom contacts happened to get it started...



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,866 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I don't know, but I'll bet the house Abbeyshrule had something to do with it....



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,646 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Id say its very straight forward, We are the only English speaking country using it as such. In the interview one of the amercians even referenced HEMS for rapid deployment. They may not be doing HEMS but they have to move quick. Also the door gunnary and NVG is something they will be doing. I would also the salesman said sure the irish use these all the time and will help you out.

    We could see US crew here for training to work up hourssuch as HEMS and Troop deployment trainning.

    It would be a win win over all



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    I bet our lads wouldn't mind having a blast in one o them Apaches in return



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    You dont need a genius to figure out why, here is a hint, they are the ones getting the AW139...



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    Not really, they are the ones getting the AW139 in the US Military.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,866 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,866 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The whole USAF is eventually getting the 139 under the Huey replacement programme, its just peculiar that the Force component the Irish are becoming pen pals with, is the land based ballistic missile operations command.

    Besides, the Yanks aren't getting the AW139, they are getting the MH-139A Grey Wolf, built under licence by Boeing in America. A very different aircraft to the green painted civilian versions we took delivery of, 16 years ago...

    If anything, the AC should be evaluating this American Grey Wolf variant as a replacement for our AW139s.



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