Interesting articles

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475700#Comment_120475700

Have you read the comments section...But overall a segment of the UK media seems to have lost their absolute sh!t over this visit, which in itself is funny as feck.

Also other than being "person who writes in the Torygraph", who is this Colonel?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120475791#Comment_120475791

An they wonder why no one likes them . Ot be nice to put ode to joy on continus loop on there website.

Larbre34

I've used up my trial, but honestly, its just exactly what you think its going to be.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476391#Comment_120476391

I’ll post it later, just an fyi (not that I recommend it) but there is an extension for Firefox at least that can avoid paywalls for most of the major news sites.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120477107#Comment_120477107

That comment section is mild compared to the Telegraphs one, I swear is it a rule when talking Ireland and defence that an English poster has to kick off about WW2 within 5 posts? I wonder do they do the same for the Swiss or Swedes?

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120476391#Comment_120476391

put the link into archive.is

jonnybigwallet

Seems fair to me overall. Though increasing military spend does not necessarily mean joining nato.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120477538#Comment_120477538

Try telling that to People Before Logic.

Its actually where I think we should go ourselves, I wouldn't be in favour of becoming the 33rd NATO member, but rather to enchance PfP and the cooperative relationship with NATO, by, most importantly, enhancing our military capability enough to comprehensively protect and defend our own yard and leave our NATO neighbours assured that we are no longer a soft underbelly, an unlocked back door to the European territory.

Larbre34

An MoU between this State and NATO could achieve that.

Besides, I don't think the Government need persuading anymore, its the engagement with the people and any referendum that may follow that now require focus and communication.

Larbre34

A fair description of the evolving situation.

roadmaster

I know the below issue is under the EU remit and they are over security but will it trigger the civil servants here to get the ministers to speed up on legeslation to deploy the army for protection on certain irish embasseys

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41118985.html

Larbre34

They could legislate all they want, but there are very few countries that have the military capability to safely insert themselves into the middle of a burgeoning civil war in the middle of Africa.

No I don't think such powers are ever in our future.

sparky42

Well it’s a good thing that our “neutrality!” Means that these ships would never do anything hostile to our infrastructure…

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2023/04/19/russia-has-plan-to-sabotage-north-sea-windfarms-cables/

Larbre34

Phew, thank God eh?

Its also such a stroke of luck that none of the cables and pipelines connected to Ireland go to territories that aren't neutral, that would be bad.

roadmaster

Does the below refer to the current air corps chief or a former?

https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/court-of-appeal-air-corps-sergeant-wins-appeal-against-refusal-to-consider-him-for-promotion

Larbre34

Hey I'd love to be an Air Corps pilot, even though I'm too unfit, too poor of vision and have never undertaken a day's training in my life. But I know they're a bit short, so maybe if I write to the GOC, he'll make an exception due to the exigencies of the Corps and let me do it anyway.

sparky42

Something more from Martin on his upcoming “review” I guess:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0420/1378214-defence-forces/

Larbre34

On that note, still no word on these forums that are to take place in June.

They can't afford to be seen to try rush or railroad anything around this public consultation of sorts. It will make the socialist PANA / Irish Neutrality League even more arsey than they already are.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120501876#Comment_120501876

Yeah, while that shower of shite are going to wheel out their usual BS, I’m sure the likes of PBP and SF will be screaming about NATO an all day long anyway. That being said, I’m still not sure what exact purpose these meetings will have? Is it going to change anyones position? Will anyone who doesn’t already have a position on the matter actually pay attention long enough to educate themselves?

sparky42

So who do we bum a ride off of this time? Also has anyone checked the max capacity of a 295 when we have a situation where hundreds of Irish citizens might need to be moved (in a couple of years of course)?

https://www.independent.ie/news/plans-to-evacuate-irish-citizens-as-civil-war-escalates-in-sudan-42443337.html

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504082#Comment_120504082

So if someone provides a lift we will provide security?

If its not safe to go by air could they be looking at a armed convoy to a friendly country to the north?

Larbre34

71 pax plus 3 crew apparently. Maybe more if you're not talking about troops with full kit.

Good luck everybody else.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504554#Comment_120504554

Maybe Foreign Affairs and Defence could ask everyone going to unstable countries to limit themselves to just some 70 odd people at any one time in those unstable states... Though then what happens if there's two unstable states at the same time...

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120506317#Comment_120506317

Time to put a call in to the ballsbridge leasing company to see if the two casas they where offereing are still around

Grassy Knoll

No, what is happening is we are waiting (as usual) for our de facto defence force (the UK ) to evacuate their folks and hitch a lift for our citizens on their aircraft … am I wrong?

We maybe could interchange the UK for one or two other countries.

roadmaster

It looks like it will be the French to the rescue again.

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/africa/2023/04/22/evacuation-of-irish-citizens-from-sudan-threatened-by-fighting-at-airport/

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120508391#Comment_120508391

If the upper figure of 300 or so is right I imagine it might be a number of different nations we will be thanking, least we could do is send support for securing the airport and processing the Irish, but I imagine like Kabul we will finally do that only a couple of days before the mission ends…

How hard is it to say “do what we eventually did for Kabul but do it now rather than leave it to the last”?

Larbre34

I know it's easy for us to throw brick bats at the Govt for the decades of under-investment and they are all fully justified, but honestly even if we had that 295 shined up, fuelled and ready to fly, I think this situation is far more dangerous than even Kabul was.

In Kabul, the allied forces on the ground had an absolute ton of defensive weapons, personnel, protective vehicles etc and controlled the airspace and the airport complex for the most part. Also, the Taliban were basically facilitating the allies to leave asap, so long as there were no tricks being pulled.

Khartoum is a different ballgame. Its basically an active warzone, with combat aircraft, artillery and trained combatants roaming around the place. There is no local presence of western forces to anchor a defensive position and lead an evacuation.

I suspect that even well resourced forces like l'Armeé de l'Air and the RAF will not be at all keen to stage an unsupported landing that far into deepest Africa, without combat air cover or a friendly ATC in place. The risk of a stray shell or something taking down a fully laden A400 with maybe 140 souls on board is beyond contemplation.

Even if the planes got in an out, there is still a high risk of casualties among the evacuees or the air force personnel deployed. You could bring in special operations forces on the plane, but they still have to get off by the ramp without knowing who's waiting to take a shot at them.

All that said, Khartoum is something like 600 km from the nearest border or the Red Sea coast so an overland exodus is no less fraught with danger and logistical nightmares.

I don't envy the civil and military authorities in any affected Country this one at all.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120508710#Comment_120508710

I don't think any of us are saying the situation isn't highly dangerous and unstable, that goes without saying, and we are so far behind the skill sets and equipment needed to help outside of the ARW, of course we are going to be left to put our faith in the resources of other nations. However when you see nations mustering planes and troops from Pacific nations to the US for the evac you can see what we are talking about in terms of resources.

What gets me is that it seems again we are in an "Ad hoc" type situation, I mean since Kabul has there been any formal planning by Foreign Affairs and Defence (and of course the Cabinet) in how to deal with these emergencies? Have we spent the time working with any partners to make a "formal" arrangement for how to respond/react or are we still at the point of "ring around and find out?"

Of course even if we had the Transport CASA and a full strength ARW we would only at best be playing a small role in such an operation.

roadmaster

The US used 100 Troops & 3 Helicopters to get 70 staff out of sudan

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/us-embassy-staff-airlifted-from-sudan-by-special-forces-as-fighting-continues-42444931.html

jonnybigwallet

Looks like the French are coming to our rescue..."Vive la France 🇫🇷 "

Larbre34

Reports of conditions on the ground say it's far from that simple.

The French aren't commenting, even on a convoy of their nationals which was attacked in Khartoum, so something is obviously in the planning. If they are going to assist with Irish citizen evacuation again, we should certainly be sending an ARW unit with them to assist securing the operation.

sparky42

12 members of the DF are being sent (presuming ARW), andthe UK has evacuated their embassy staff and families already:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0423/1378622-defence-forces-sudan/

roadmaster

Jesus it like the defence forces have entered a bad circle of news at the moment. Nearly every news article is to with some issue. I hope the CoDF report starts getting results shown to give some good news

Larbre34

God speed to them and our partners. Unless some arrangements have been secured with the conflicting groups on the ground, this could make Kabul look like a picnic in the Park.

jonnybigwallet

A dozen is hardly and overwhelming force. Two dozen sounds like a better idea to me.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510935#Comment_120510935

It seems that at least the "Army" faction seems willing to help and allow the evacuation of foreigners, not sure about the other side or how much control they have over their fighters though.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510932#Comment_120510932

Pretty much, between the sadly now regular reports on manpower issues and the growing reports on conditions and conduct this year is unlikely to be good for them, short of some the bumper billions finding its way to the Defence budget its hard to see that improving and even then money won't solve the misconduct issues.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510946#Comment_120510946

Does it? That's nice.

Grassy Knoll

I think 12 is the figure as it is considered the outer bound the Government can send abroad without the triple lock approval kicking in … such an idiotic bind a sovereign nation has placed upon it self….

Anyways, presume it is the Rangers, also presume we are hitching a lift … again no reflection on the DF, but scandalous we lack the independent airlift capability to deploy at distance, at short notice …The government jet is not even fit for such a trip to get them to the region….

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510952#Comment_120510952

Indeed.

It would be an ideal day for a couple of AC-130J Ghostriders to orbit around the airfield but it seems whoever goes in there is on their own and will have to carry any defensive weapons on the Transports.

A perilous venture.

jonnybigwallet

I'm so happy I have made you happy...my dear dear friend.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511113#Comment_120511113

Given that Martin has now suggested that he backs reviewing the Triple lock, hopefully that act of insanity might go away, though I imagine the Greens will be the major issue of the government parties. As for airlift, even if the jet was operational and reliable enough to go all that way it really wouldn’t be of much use even for the 12 surely?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511238#Comment_120511238

Grow up you fool. 12 Irish soldiers are being sent into the most perilous tactical situation faced by any DF unit, perhaps since East Timor, certainly since Mali, and you're at your usual Johnny ballbag shite talk. You're just a dickhead.

roadmaster

Taken from the times below

The plan is to travel onwards on either French, German or Dutch military aircraft to an airport in Sudan.

Does our state have no shame that we have to keep asking for lifts?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511343#Comment_120511343

All you need do is compare the tactical situation to the other nations' approach.

The Brits last night sent in 1,200 personnel of the 16 Air Assault Brigade (Army), Royal Marines and RAF pilots and crew with their operation.

Even if Ireland had achieved LoA3 and then some, we couldn't do that.

But yes, the Triple Lock is not fit for purpose with Irish citizenry living in numbers all over the globe. It should be binned as policy and the deployment of Irish DF personnel be entirely a matter for the Government and Dáil Éireann.

jonnybigwallet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511498#Comment_120511498

You're a lovely old chap!

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511521#Comment_120511521

To be fair, it’s 5+ years too late to be able to generate any other option but to bum lifts. Even the couple of years since Kabul just isn’t enough time to change that even if the government actually focused on that. Perhaps the best option for the short term is actually formalise an agreement with a nation that has the capability to deploy globally while we take steps to sort our **** out.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511527#Comment_120511527

That’s very true, no question even if we had LoA3+ right now we’d still have to work with others in this situation, however in such a case we would be able to actually deploy a meaningful capacity both in the ARW and in transport capabilities.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511974#Comment_120511974

Agree with you about their future prospects, but given their grassroots position (largely) on "neutrality" I can still see Ryan and Co. being a pain in the arse about changing the Triple Lock, and actually getting the public to vote on it...