Interesting articles

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511977#Comment_120511977

If we were talking about a grown up discussion/debate on foreign and defence policy, yes instead at best I figure something like the never disclosed RAF agreement, as in we will try and get an agreement/understanding from someone and then knowing us do nothing to change our capabilities.

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120511343#Comment_120511343

Agree, on both scores, ability to actually get there without malfunction plus payload capability to fly the Rangers there …

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120510124#Comment_120510124

And you can be sure they let all warring sides know that if anyone so much as LOOKED in their direction they would be obliterated.

Sending only 12 troops sounds like sheer madness.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513040#Comment_120513040

Even leaving out our personnel issues, there’s the Triple Fecking Lock. And of course the fact that we have to ask someone not to fly some of their people to give us slots for ours, how many do you think other nations are willing to give up?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513040#Comment_120513040

We don't have a choice. At the moment, the Irish Triple Lock policy prevents the Government from deploying any more than a dozen Troops overseas without the mission having a United Nations mandate.

This means, in effect, that if a mission that the Irish Government may be interested in participating, gets vetoed in the UN Security Council by Russia or China for political reasons that may have nothing at all to do with the actual mission itself, prevents Ireland from participating for the lack of a mandate.

This is exactly the reason the Government now wants to abandon the Triple Lock and leave Irish Troop deployment purely in the hands of the Government and the Dáil, given that Russia is now a nefarious actor on the international stage.

In any case, even if we wanted to send more Army Rangers to Sudan now, they'd still need a lift from other EU air forces so we'd probably only send 2 or 3 dozen max regardless.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513083#Comment_120513083

Let’s be honest, Russias recent action isn’t the first sign of the insanity of leaving such an important act of a state in the hands of other nations, to this day I have no idea what the government was thinking creating the Triple Lock at the time, I mean it’s not like China or Russia have ever not been at “something” not that the 3 Western nations are entirely spotless either…

Larbre34

True that. Just cowardice or abdication of responsibility of successive Irish Governments since 1960 so.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513189#Comment_120513189

Nah it's perfect....something needs to be done..."Sorry can't..not our fault though!"

mupper2

Bit of news, Spain has lifted a group of Irish people out in a larger set of foreign nationals.

Grassy Knoll

It seems from reports hostilities on the ground have intensified with a near collapse in communications across the city. The window to extract- what must be several thousand expats - seems to be closing fast. It is unclear if some force eg the UK holds the airport and what its operational state is. Kabul increasingly looks more like a picnic in comparison….

roadmaster

I wonder will this change any thinking in buying more the one transport casa?

Edit: it looks like MM maybe trying to do something!

https://www.newstalk.com/news/sudan-evacuation-illustrates-weakness-of-irish-defence-policy-martin-1458542

Larbre34

Yeah MM said this morning on radio that he intends to pursue a strategic lift partnership, presumably along the lines of the two (?) that exist across 6 or 7 States on the continent.

It doesn't have to be a NATO apparatus of course, though the usual fools will be equating it to acquiring ICBMs and putting them in the Burren, but however. There aren't many neutrals left of course, but maybe an opportunity exists to partner with Austria, Switzerland and Malta or something along those lines. Obviously a France/ Spain / Portugal combination would suit us most but that's for a conversation at EU level.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514810#Comment_120514810

Malta doesn’t really add anything, they are in the same state as we are with no lift capability, though if we did develop something that might help them as well I suppose given our contacts with them, as for anyone else? It makes sense of course for us and arguably at an EU level to build this, and it’s not the first time it’s been talked about, but again surely we would have to up what we could bring to such an arrangement?

Larbre34

Let's be honest, we may not have pilots or hangarage, but we can well afford an A400, or a half share in one without any difficulty.

We also have Shannon which is an ideal strategic lift hub.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515115#Comment_120515115

I think pretty much everyone could agree with that, as with everything with the DF is comes down to public and political will, the options are there and well understood at this stage, just needs us to actually do something.

roadmaster

Is MM talking about the EATC that the air corps wanted to join if they had got the two World food casas? Either way no one will want us joining there party if we have only one transport aircaft.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515190#Comment_120515190

Wonder if they are still an option? Even as a short term stop gap?

sparky42

This is a bit of a new twist, with “a Government spokesperson” saying that the two MPAs when they arrive can be reconfigured for such emergencies for more cargo capacity, wonder how quick that would be in such an emergency situation?

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2023/0424/1378676-sudan-evacuation/

roadmaster

Minister why have we not got are new casa aircraft watching the russian ships. Mmmm we had to send them to africa!

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515392#Comment_120515392

They can, but it would be a sub-standard solution for all concerned.

The 235s were grand for the odd air ambulance flight or repatriation a prisoner, but with all the consoles and other shite on board, how many could be evacuated, 20 or 30?

It's a mistake for the Government to bring that sort of a fudge into the mix.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120515940#Comment_120515940

Agreed, think it might be a kneejerk reaction to the increased attention to us having nothing?

Larbre34

Yeah poor enough for a Government press response, its not a solution so just shut up. Besides, if you're explaining you're losing.

sparky42

Seems that Kabul and Sudan might have finally managed to start at least some thinking about the Triple Lock, or at least changing the upper number that can be deployed without it?

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2023/04/28/triple-lock-why-only-12-defence-forces-members-can-be-sent-on-evacuation-missions/

I mean it’s a given that the small Left parties will say no (do they say anything else in terms of Defence?), but between the government parties, labour and SF by the sounds of it maybe?

Larbre34

SF will say yes to anything now. Mary Lou stood up in from the the Institute of European Affairs yesterday and waxed lyrical about the positive effect of 65 years of European treaty based partnership. Hers, the party of historical No campaigning against all EEC/EU treaties....

I'll be surprised if she isn't at home of an evening now practising her Napoleonic pose in her M&S blazer. Talk about a Damascene conversion.

But as regards the Triple Lock, it shouldn't be reformed, it should be abolished. As a Sovereign State, only our elected Government and Parliament should have approval to deploy our Defence Forces as needed.

Grassy Knoll

Good article by Collins, clearly points out some of the humbug and claptrap that passed for policy and political level discussion here on defence and security matters. In the past there may been more of an acceptance by other countries of us abdicating our responsibilities, but when we now clearly have the ability to fund this ourselves and indeed when our energy ICT infrastructures now and in the future have wider economic / security impacts we need to safeguard them.

The two new CASA patrol aircraft are probably the bare minimum … actually half of our navy is not operational if we count the two en route … army has gaps all over the place … anyways let us hope it is gradually on the way up …

Larbre34

I do feel we are at a watershed moment and I must commend MM for establishing these public debate fora to force this national conversation out into the open, where hopefully dishonesty and whataboutery from certain quarters can be challenged and dismantled.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120532249#Comment_120532249

There’s no question that events seem to have finally started a more serious discussion on the entire Defence and Foreign Policy, so hopefully you are right. On the other hand I see PBP have already jumped to the “the chair is British so it’s all a plot to join NATO”…

Larbre34

🤣🤣🤣 clowns. That's the second really poor decision they have made today.

sparky42

Good luck to the lads:

https://twitter.com/DFCavalryCorps/status/1651834404782628864

sparky42

Interesting bit in the Sunday Times toady regarding the spat between Martin an the Russian Embassy:

Russia is targeting Micheál Martin, the tanaiste, through official channels over his plan to review Ireland’s national security policy, leading to concerns that Moscow may use hybrid tactics to undermine the government and state.

Hostilities worsened yesterday when the Russian embassy openly attacked Martin for supporting Irish people who travel to Ukraine to fight.

Moscow’s initial frustration with Martin is understood to be prompted by his decision to set up the Consultative Forum on International Security Policy, which is due to take place in June.

It is expected to result in a significant policy shift on Irish security and defence, though the state will continue to remain neutral.

The threat posed by Russia is expected to dominate the forum as the nation is now considered by the military and security services to pose a significant risk to Ireland’s security interests.

“Russia is actively engaged in espionage on Irish soil and sowing dissent by supporting fringe political organisations that support terrorism and rightwing extremism,” military sources told The Sunday Times. “Russia’s security services have increased their activities in Ireland, including collecting intelligence, and are targeting government agencies and state institutions through espionage.”

Martin, the minister for foreign affairs and defence, has already drawn Moscow’s ire more than any other politician. He oversaw the expulsion of four Russian diplomats last year on the basis that their activities were not in accordance with the international standards of diplomatic behaviour.

Among those expelled were Colonel Igor Molyanov, a Russian defence attaché who stood accused of participation in disinformation campaigns designed to undermine public confidence in the government and the Defence Forces.

Sergey Prokopiev, a Russian GRU military intelligence officer involved in clandestine activities while working as a counsellor at the federation’s embassy, was also asked to leave the state by the Department of Foreign Affairs on the advice of the military and garda intelligence.

Martin is said to have pressed for the expulsions on the grounds that Ireland needed to be seen to take a proactive stance on the nefarious activities of Russian intelligence on Irish soil but also be seen to support Ukraine.

In response, Russia has become more vocal and assertive in its criticisms of Irish foreign policy.

Tensions rose again yesterday after Martin paid tribute to Finbar Cafferkey, a political activist from Co Mayo, who was killed in action in Ukraine last week.

In a social media post the Russian embassy said it did not know if Martin’s remarks signified support for Irish nationals who chose to take part in the war but if this were the case then Ireland would be a direct participant in the conflict with all the ensuing consequences.

The statement, interpreted as nothing more than Russian hubris by analysts, prompted calls for the expulsion of Yuriy Filatov, the Russian ambassador to Ireland, who has become a vocal critic of Irish foreign policy since the invasion.

The Department of Foreign Affairs was forced to issue a statement confirming Ireland’s support for Ukraine but reaffirmed the state’s policy of maintaining diplomatic relations with the Kremlin.

It described the embassy’s post as “disinformation”.

It followed yet another comment by Martin who used parliamentary privilege to suggest Russian involvement in promoting a story about Niall Collins, the Fianna Fail junior minister who has faced criticism over his alleged involvement in his wife’s bid to buy Limerick council land.

Martin’s allegations were denied by both The Ditch and the Russian embassy, which denied any involvement in the website.

It is unclear whether Martin’s comments reflect official government policy or constitute his personal views. The comments were not based on any security briefing he received, according to multiple sources.

Relations between Ireland and Moscow collapsed in 2016 when the government was forced to introduce emergency legislation to revoke planning permission granted to the Russian Federation to expand its embassy in Dublin on the grounds it posed a threat to national security.

The Sunday Times was unable to reach the Russian embassy for comment.

kenny80

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41129359.html

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553226#Comment_120553226

Not a chance in hell it would get through planning.

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120554218#Comment_120554218

Slowly slowly other countries start putting on the pressure for us to do something....we all kinda guessed they would. The idea of everyone else taking care of security and Ireland just coat tailing forever was never going to last.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120553339#Comment_120553339

It's a nonsensical idea anyway, rocket launch sites avail of reliably clear skies and year round mild temperatures to provide as little variable as possible in the environmental factor for all the delicate tolerances.

Ireland has cold wet winters, frequent low cloud base, persistent dampness year round and high winds, especially in the west.

People like O'Halloran ought to know better than to come out with this shite, no matter what Board he is sitting on now. He's certainly around long enough to remember that it was an untypically cold night in Cape Canaveral that brought about the failure of the Challenger shuttle launch and we get nights/early mornings like that 5 months of the year!

File it with the Whitewater rafting in the Dublin Docklands and the Vegas Casino at Tipperary racecourse.

Larbre34

If we were to set about properly protecting our waters, EEZ and the skies above both, to best international standards, what would we be talking about?

A Navy of 20 to 25 ships? At least 6 multi-purpose Frigates with a strong ASW credential and maybe up to 4 diesel-electric submarines or failing that, a large component of ship-borne DSRVs?

I'm thinking at least 8 to 10 ocean going ships on patrol at any one time, with half of them carrying ASW helicopters and associated kit.

Larbre34

It's a key issue that. We absolutely cannot expect NATO to take over routine patrol of the EEZ infrastructure without offering routine berthage and re-supply.

And if that's the case, Russia won't draw any distinction between us and NATO proper (and neither will our own resident tankie loons) , in which case, is there any point in us staying out of the Alliance in all but name?

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555076#Comment_120555076

I wonder is there a good case for us to think outside the box a wee bit and embrace large sized UAV/USV for monitoring the Ocean?

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120556699#Comment_120556699

Yes but isn't there something to be said for a physical presence letting anyone around know the are being watched in real time, UAV/USV can loiter a Sat just does passes.

roadmaster

Colemans island has popped up again. The air corps might have to give AGS a few lifts.

Intersting in the article it appears the ERU have permission to travel in the north but not the ASU

https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/gardai-at-risk-as-armed-units-not-allowed-carry-guns-into-border-area/a373055393.html

jonnybigwallet

I don't know the area....but can't they get in by boat?

mupper2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557470#Comment_120557470

Of course, but it is highly unlikely we'll ever reach the ideal number of crewed ships, we struggle with what we have now, so 12+ seems at least unfeasible in the medium term. So we maybe should be looking at gap filling alternatives to give us options.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557196#Comment_120557196

The Air Corps always give AGS a lift anyway. Whenever there is an incident where ERU attendance in numbers is needed in a hurry, in a remote spot, they are brought on a A139.

Recent examples include a number of the very sad domestic shootings in rural areas up to last year, where live firearm activity was reported and the ERU were sent to search and secure, by Air Corps chopper landing in a suitable playing pitch or parkland.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559272#Comment_120559272

Hence by AGS are looking for there own airlift rather then using the air corps. But the issue the border garda have is regular armed detectives or asu cant cross from cavan or monaghan to get the scene via fermanagh but if the ERU where in clones or buttlersbridge they can drive through the north with there weapons but the asu cant

Larbre34

No harm.

roadmaster

Two spare radars that could be bought cheap.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-forced-to-pay-for-five-radars-despite-cutting-wedgetail-order/

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564649#Comment_120564649

Not really, unless you are suggesting we buy some AWACS.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564951#Comment_120564951

Not saying for this state, looks like we are not the only country that makes mistakes with contracts

jonnybigwallet

They're gonna keep them anyway and buy 3 more aircraft in a couple of years time....or aspire to.....

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564995#Comment_120564995

Who do you think taught our DOD? But the U.K. MOD has been a basket case of procurement for decades at this stage.

Larbre34

Going ahead with the reduction in aircraft from 5 to 3 seems pure mental in this day and age.

The RAFs commitment to the Baltic and the eastern Med, to name but two theatres, is going to stretch their operational capability massively over the next couple of decades.