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DF Commission Report

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Given the IPV's arriving next year that is kind of necessary for the East Coast at least. West Coast still not really convinced, wonder where it will be?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    For the West coast Killybegs would be probaly the only one fit to go with Full access. I dont think there is any other port really good enoght. Galway is controlled and Sligo i think is tidal as well



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Sure the fishing community will love having the Navy as neighbours...



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I understand thay Army HQ will be more than likely in Athlone as there is very Strong poltical will behind it. But weather our Generals will want to cross the shannon is another story



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    At the rate Ukraine is advancing, combined with the slow pace of progress with the CDF report, the fine people of Ukraine will be back in their own homes by the time this happens.

    Here is a link to the full discussion.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/video-archive/committees/6483



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,048 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    From whom?

    There are literally zero heavy hitters in Longford-Westmeath to swing that kind of investment, especially as you say if there is Brass resistance.

    Assuming Navy HQ remains sensibly in Cork, the Army HQ will almost surely be in Dublin. Besides, being Army HQ could be a small business park it doesn't need to be an actual operational base. In fact, its probably better if it isn't.

    For example, British Army Headquarters is a low rise campus in Hampshire between an industrial estate and a railway line. Its got one helipad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Time will tell but it was the commision that said the Army HQ be Geograpgically centrally located. It would be an easy win for the government as they can tick the box saying they have gone along with another recomendation



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,048 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Being geographically central in Ireland is meaningless.

    All the transport links are Dublin centric, ie you can get to Donegal and South Kerry still quicker from Dublin, by road or rail, than from Athlone. And wherever it ends up being located, you'd expect its digital communications capacity to be state of the art regardless.

    There is also no military justification for it being located centrally, save for the risk of a seaborne invasion!

    Its a strange rec by the Commission and one I don't think should hold any sway.

    I'd understand much more if they said, lets look at a few reasonable sized towns and give the investment of locating Army HQ to the most deprived, to get a bit of cash rolling around local businesses. Somewhere like a Longford, Navan or Claremorris. Because really, for its intended function, it could be anywhere, but probably should remain near Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Athlone has been touted as DFHQ for a long long time, cant see it happening. Maybe elements could be moved like with Newbridge back in 2013, however, administration has been less efficient as a result.

    The NS have Dun Laoghaire in their sights.

    Gormanston is a perfect place to train recruits. The DOD wouldn't spend money on it as there were too many unanswered questions over its future, for the last 20 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    Had a look at the committee hearing. Coveney was impressive as others have commented and seems personally invested in delivering this. Certainly the committee members didn’t engage in play acting and seemed supportive of the direction of travel. The sign off by Dper on pay elements is important, as with the changes in ministers in about 2 months will see things grind to a halt. There is a huge amount in the report and to be fair there is a lot of unglamorous structures, operational, tendering and design work to be done to ensure that what is being worked on is sustainable. I still think the recruitment / retention piece will be a struggle, but I hope to be proven wrong. Big investment in Haulbowline, (70 M) but is much of that cleaning up the rest of the old steel works? Coveney seemed committed to more missions abroad- I would like to have heard more on that - AC / NS ? Another piece is engaging with EU defence initiatives- but maybe it was out of scope on the session. Anyways my initial impressions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Agreed on the NS/AC front, there was zero discussion regarding the current lack of capabilities, however it seems the meeting was focused on the CoDF report exclusively.

    As for Haulbowline, the cleanup, as such is complete, however any further building will require excavation of areas that may uncover toxic sludge or by-products, and the disposal of this will have to be carried out by specialists, so as not to cause further pollution or contamination. The old east tip, what is now quite a nice amenity area was more complex because it was basically landfill created with toxic waste. The people tasked with the cleanup were constrained in that they couldn't remove anything as this would be more harmful, and they couldn't do much excavation either, as the disturbance of dust particles could cause more harm. In the end, they completed it, and removed what was once an eyesore in the middle of the harbour. Our grandchildren will never believe what it once was. The plans for further development though, involve creating staging areas for equipment going overseas, parade grounds, more accommodation, and of course proper sports facilities. It is a miracle that the NS manage to maintain their high fitness standard given the size of their existing gym/sports hall. Luckily they have plenty of room for running. There is potential also for some form of Heliport.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Was there recently a Naval Service presentaion which showed Hangers amd helipads at the base?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Helipads definitely, but for the life of me I can never find it online. It is quite detailed as to how the park would be accessed etc, renovate Block 8 after for shore berths etc.

    This isn't it.

    Haulbowline-Assessments.pdf (corkcocoplans.ie)

    This is another great plan which literally died a death soon after being published when most of the artifacts mentioned were destroyed in the Block 4 fire.

    Microsoft Word - Final Report _February 2007_.doc (heritagecouncil.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5 BrandyRebel


    Foks before Cavan barracks was shut down, they invested heavily in a brand new barracks at enterance to tje town, that was sold for peanuts to the ETB, close to Midlands and border and would not take much investment, never understood its withdrawal in tbe first place but the building and security fence is there already



  • Registered Users Posts: 313 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    The Rangers SOF are to have a detachment in Haulbowline so I suppose helis and an accommodation block etc will form part of that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,048 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Given the reported issues with numbers for them if nothing else. But yeah there’s a lot that the base needs, like everywhere else of course.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    In relation to Gormanstown being a main training base would they not be better of taking back Cavan, Mullingar or Longford where the infastructure is in place with just refurb needed and use them as the training base. I presume new building will have to be built in gormanstown for this to work there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Can't really "Take back" a building you no longer own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Of course you can they are still state owned. They can simply transfer the ownership back



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,939 ✭✭✭sparky42


    To be honest, given what you’d likely have to spend “refurbishing” I think a new purpose built option is actually the better investment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,048 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Completely agree.

    None of those former, small, Urban/Suburban Barracks mentioned are suitable for the expansion required, nor the noisier and more challenging aspects of 2-Star level training.

    Gormanstown is over 1 million square metres of a site, has loads of scope for new infrastructure and its neighbours are well used to live firing drills.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Is there going to be any timeframe or KPIs for putting the parts of the Commisions report that government are gping to do



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,048 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The Implementation Group (to be Chaired independently) will endorse the delivery action plans and report on performance.

    I think those plans are to be made available to the Minister and presumably the Implementation Group before year end.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    It looks like casement is staying long term. Hanger upgrades, New Medical Facility and now a etender out for design of New Ordance Stores and Guardroom



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    They're gettin it ready for the new jets!



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,048 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    But not necessarily long term as an airbase eh?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,048 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Stuff like this makes the scope of PESCO look completely redundant. Because it is.

    These guys are saying '**** the EU Procurement', going straight to the manufacturers they know and trust and giving them a shopping list. Thats wartime inventory building.

    If only the Irish Government had the balls to piggyback this process, talk to NATO and say, 'look, we aren't going to join up and fight with you if it comes to it, BUT, we understand your logic about 'sky shield' and if you help us fast track equipment purchase, we will look after our own back yard and at least plug a potential weak spot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,432 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    But nootralliddly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,742 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    But think about the landing fees in Shannon airport and all the sambos that where sold



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