DF Commission Report

Signore Fancy Pants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119726799#Comment_119726799

Gormanston has enough existing infrastructure. You could train up to 100 or so troops at at time.

It really doesn't lack anything, its actually superior in scope to city barracks'.

roadmaster

The Air Corps have Tender out today for a company Train its staff for Air Traffic Control. Good sign of things to come

Dohvolle

It means they intend doing their own ATC for another few years at least. I understand a new Tower & associated ATC building is in the pipeline.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119854386#Comment_119854386

All good signs they are not throwing the towel in

roadmaster

At last some sensiable thinking. The state is looking at joint purchasing with our EU friends. The Mowags replacment could be part of this as well as aircraft

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/11/15/ireland-backs-push-for-joint-eu-military-procurement/

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119880488#Comment_119880488

Should really be everything imo, whether that's small arms, munitions, vehicles, planes or ships.

Dohvolle

We need to start buying off the shelf. Equipment and fitouts unique to our particular needs end up costing more, and rarely serve us well. (LTAV, Dauphin etc)

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881822#Comment_119881822

And if the argument is either the DOD can’t handle multiple large scale procurements simultaneously, or are afraid of “EU regulations” then going with a bigger order should help there. If there is any serious intention of some sort of anti mine capability for the NS, why design our own when there’s a major European project designing and building them right now for multiple nations for example.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119881822#Comment_119881822

100%

I've said it before on here, we have no need to be an early adopter or bespoke builder. Our needs are tiny, proven, durable tech OTS will fulfil everything we need.

Glad to see the EU procurement proposal. Its essentially the next natural step in PESCO, bulk savings.

No doubt the naysayers will be out expecting the Minuteman transporters to be rolling down the N7 any day.

roadmaster

I wonder privately are they thinking Boxer apcs, The Dutch/Belgian/french MCM etc. Is there any EU countries looking at a MRV?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119882079#Comment_119882079

Think the Portuguese have been looking at some sort of LPD, not sure what they are going with though, can't think of anyone else that is looking for something like a MRV?

roadmaster

I see the Cavan Monaghan college will be leaving cavan army barracks long term for a new college in the town. Could this lead to the army returning to cavan?

If the air corps keep 112 it would be a good place to base it with the new service in the south

Larbre34

I see the Cavan Monaghan college will be leaving cavan army barracks long term for a new college in the town. Could this lead to the army returning to cavan?

100% no.

Grassy Knoll

I see a defence review is to be conducted… I thought the Commission on Defence did a fairly decent job - I hope not more paralysis by analysis - at this point the reform process needs some early, tangible wins to help stem the outflow and help build morale … certainly these things are not done in a day but it is hard to maintain morale in an organisation where the bad news is relentless

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965034#Comment_119965034

Looking at it, I don’t think there is much “stepping on toes” between this new announcement and the Commission. This seems geared towards cyber and hybrid threats, given we still never had the national plan released.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965034#Comment_119965034

A what now?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965318#Comment_119965318

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/12/06/new-major-irish-national-security-review-to-examine-russian-aggression-and-chinese-cyberattacks/

Dohvolle

We haven't completed the recommendations of any of the previous ones yet.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965331#Comment_119965331

"It would be unwise to make any major changes until the report is finished". Or something along those lines

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119965390#Comment_119965390

Clarification is not to clarify things. It is to put one’s self in the clear (Sir Humphrey Appleby)

Larbre34

To be fair, the strategic threat environment is about more than defence, its about intelligence too and ours is paltry.

The strategic risk level has changed utterly since 2019, so much so that I think they're as well off starting with a blank sheet of paper. Also NSAC was only getting on its feet in '19, they should carry this new review out as an established lead advisor to the Government. Who knows, maybe they'll show the DoD a thing or two.

roadmaster

Will Defence stay with FA next week ?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119982808#Comment_119982808

I'd be surprised if it did not.

Its a good fit overall, in the context of Ireland's overall size, external relations and military scope. Better than some of the other Depts it has been lumped it with down the years anyway.

I have a suspicion that Michéal Martin may opt for FA & D as Tánaiste and that Coveney could replace Varadkar at Enterprise. O'Brien is staying at H,P&LG as we know and I can't see McEntee being moved sideways while still on Maternity leave.

roadmaster

In the Defence review tyat was released it mentions the two extra medium helicopters and 8 super medium. Does that mean long term replacing the 139s with super mediums or keeping the 139 fleet with an extra 2 139s plus 8 new super mediums?

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119990180#Comment_119990180

Google is your friend.

Commission recommends that, within LOA 2, two additional medium lift rotary wing aircraft should be acquired, increasing the current medium lift fleet to eight helicopters. This will ensure the Air Corps’ helicopter fleet can continue to deliver Defence Forces’ supports and will also enhance its capacity to, for example, support local authorities when dealing with wildland fires and other such climate related emergencies that are evidently becoming more frequent. When the helicopter fleet is being replaced this should be on the basis of a step up to eight super-medium helicopters which will enhance Defence Forces’ on-island troop transport capability, provide joint force support to the Army, Navy and SOF, and provide additional capacity in the ATCA role.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119990681#Comment_119990681

Yes thats what i taught but in the Defence Forces review 2022 on military.ie they have it worded as the following "2 extra medium lift helicopters and 8 super medium lift helicopters"

Thats just reads slightly different

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119991075#Comment_119991075

It's down to interpretation. 2 additional AW139 now because we are tearing the arse out of the 6 we have, and they won't last with their current usage.

Replace then with 8 Super Medium.(Hopefully by then, the Brits will have replaced their Puma fleet too)

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119992118#Comment_119992118

More than likely Leonardo will win the UK tender with the AW149 we could easily add on 10 aircraft and get a discount with the overall unit price.

We could even through are lot in with the French H160m order but that helicopter might be to small for our needs

Larbre34

Why would the Irish military get a discount on the back of a UK order? If they do place a massive order, the only thing we'd get out of it is a lead time somewhere over the horizon.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994003#Comment_119994003

The same reason as any bulk order the more you bulk order the more the unit price comes down.

If we went this route our ordering team would have to fight the case that we get the helicopters in a reasonable time frame.

Its being discussed here several times the advantages of ordering in bulk even Coveney has said we should be ordering with other nations. By the time the order is made the UK will be probaly back in the Customs union