DF Commission Report

Larbre34

It is absolutely plausible.

I just can't help getting the feeling that NATO are now shovelling on offers to us of just about anything we could handle, if it means we can better secure our own back yard, at the very least.

We are now quite clearly involved in a semi-formal global western sharing group of NATO, plus the Five Eyes, plus the Spirit of Camp David triumvirate, plus Austria and Switzerland.

And if we're involved, Malta will be involved somewhere and so will Cyprus through its Greek and Turkish affiliations.

The Pacific cooperative brings in the Philippines and Malaysia too, and Singapore through its British and Aussie / NZ ties.

And from that, you have the other ASEAN members, whose greatest geopolitical challenger is China, and so if push comes to shove, you can add in Thailand, Laos, Brunei, Indonesia, and oddly but very significantly, Vietnam.

Then it'll be for some of the fence sitting feckers, like South Africa and Brazil, to pick a window and jump out of it. Saudi, Pakistan, Bahrain, Jordan, Oman, the UAE, Qatar and Israel will all line up with the US if it comes to it.

vswr

DF - "TPY4 fits all our requirements, we just need to evaluate a few others"

DF - "The Terma Scanter also fits our requirements, for a fraction of the cost, we are going to pick this very capable radar"

Terma - "this is a X-band radar and will be prone to rain outages in Irish climate"

DF - " it's PSR though?"

Terma - "yes"

DF - "3 please"

Serious piece of kit the TPY4, I'm sure there will be physical security clauses if they do get chosen. I just hope they don't go down the route of previous advanced acquisitions, which get left to go into dis-repair. I still think it's scandalous the Giraffe's were left to rot, they are a fantastic piece of kit.

roadmaster

I noticed in the defence committee notes that The Minister for Defence said despite media reports the primary Radar is not as advanced as being reported and also the ATCP role in portlaoise will be pulled this year

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121723188#Comment_121723188

It will require 24 hour duties for someone to pedal to spin the antenna.

Kermit.de.frog

Varadkar trying to brush off embarrassment

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/feb/05/rishi-sunak-nhs-northern-ireland-dup-stormont-uk-politics-live?page=with:block-65c0dd0a8f0887442867e4c5#block-65c0dd0a8f0887442867e4c5

Happythe questions are being raised by foreign outlets.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121724058#Comment_121724058

More like Varadkar knowing that the overwhelming majority of Irish voters don't care.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121724209#Comment_121724209

In fairness, I think Ireland are doing as much as they can as a "neutral" nation, who are also evidently not a neutral nation. Any defence spend it a hard fought battle currently.

As has been demonstrated numerous times in elections past, any notion of getting rid of neutrality, or some sort of mandatory service is almost as sacrosanct as pension changes. While the government know something needs to be done about defence, it is also political suicide at the moment to even broach the issue of getting rid of neutrality. Ukraine, Middle and far East etc... are all shifting the trend though, and if it continues, particularly with an increase of Russian incursions into sovereign waters or if there is a major uptick in ops off the west coast which will piss off the fisherman vote, it may swing the other way quite fast.

But, as also mentioned, that may be too long and it may be a case we don't get a say in the matter either. The US/UK won't let UK assets be compromised through Ireland.

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121724318#Comment_121724318

We aren't even doing the bare minimum to pretend we are neutral and never have, its just the systemic unwillingness to consider defence spending in any rational manner.

roadmaster

The Next 4 years will be interesting for the Defence Forces and it seams the man that is going to drive the change intends in making it happen.

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-defence-forces-brian-molloy-transformation-action-plan-6286984-Feb2024/

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121724058#Comment_121724058

Do we want to be taking advise from people who backed Brexit amd managed to Destroy the UK?

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121724607#Comment_121724607

Lets hope he doesn't **** off early like Tony Holohan's successor as CMO.

Also, sorry what??

jonnybigwallet

What about this fleet of new aircraft he mentions in the interview?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725068#Comment_121725068

I posted this link before but if the Navy leased this building in Dún Laoghaire and offered it to young single crew members they would have no problem crewing thr IPVs if they get based in Dún Laoghaire ir another location in Dublin as mentioned in the ministers questions.They should even consider building the same type of accomadation in McKee.

https://www.nicheliving.com/move-in/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzdy1oN-UhAMVsY9QBh3pJggaEAAYASAAEgJt0vD_BwE

Kermit.de.frog

I think in the changing security environment where countries across Europe are having to up their game for their own security we will come under pressure because whether we like or not, whether neutral or not, we have a strategically important area and the reality is that our disregard for doing even the basics of patrolling and defending our airspace and our waters is a threat to our neighbours.

Every other country manages to do this except us.

We shouldn't be relying on other countries to have to take up the slack when an emergency happens or there are incursions in to our sovereign territory.

It's our responsibility.

Never mind the practical stuff - it's also about dignity and self respect as well. We are suppose to be a sovereign state so what the hell is the RAF doing having to routinely fly in and out of our airspace to see off incursions?

Why are we thumbing lifts off the French every time we need to evacuate Irish citizens from somewhere?

We should be doing this ourselves.

Will_I_Regret

I wonder will we see a naval base being set up on the East Coast this year. It would be nice to see it in Dún Laoghaire.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121727705#Comment_121727705

Do you not need both? One of the core reasons of the ships is to get personal joining from the east coast and not just the Republic of Cork.

The Minister said apart from DL they are also looking at other locations in Dublin. Would Dublin Port give up a berth space to the Navy?

Will_I_Regret

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121727767#Comment_121727767

Exactly. No use having operational ships if there is no one there to man them.

I'd imagine the busy shipping lanes in Dublin Port would make a Base there not feasible.

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121727801#Comment_121727801

shipping channel for Dublin port is easily avoided/navigated through from Dun Laoghaire. There are enough pleasure craft who do it on a daily basis. I'd be more worried trying to get out in a hurry while a boat race is on.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121725068#Comment_121725068

Indeed, but to how many service personnel is this actually available? Especially new 3-Stars who have joined looking for something solid

Grassy Knoll

While I would reckon we are a bit away from an East coast 'base', I figure basing the ships in Dun Laoghaire would mean they would have ready access to berths and it is a harbour they are well used to. I do know they occasionally tie up in Dublin along Sir John Rogersons Quay, but the former would be more secure, but also another point is it would give the Navy a better identity and develop an 'ownership' in the community. While south Dublin may not be main demographic for naval recruitment, the harbour there is a major recreational area, visited by people far and wide and would ensure greater visibility and understanding on what the navy does, or for some, even that we have one. The quays in Dublin are a bit off the beaten track by comparison.

In terms of sleeping accommodation I would target CB Barracks, surely there are buildings there that could be repurposed or renovated? Strategically it could help kill off the proposals to close it down - it is only about a 30 minute transfer away. Real estate is a premium in either DL or dublin city centre.

Anyway apart from all of that, IMHO it will be important to get them crewed / operational this summer to avoid the inevitable claims of white elephants / waste of money etc. I suppose a commissioning / naming ceremony is the first indicator we will have of any progress rather than being mothballed ?

Larbre34

I see AGS have published some stats from their recent call for applications. 37% of their new applicants are people in the newly expanded age cohort of 36-49.

Maybe its time the DF began to look seriously at expanding their intake limits, especially for the many non-combatant roles that go unfilled. I know that basic military training is universal, but I think some creativity around what roles could be civilianised or manned by older reservists, might be very beneficial to the Forces.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121758738#Comment_121758738

I dont know if a 45 year old fitter with no military background would be able to change his ways taking orders from a younger man or woman half his age.

Not stereotyping but the kind of lads we say the navy need are usually grumpy lads in a union. Maybe if they had Direct Entry warrant Officer ranks where there only job is to keep the ship working it would work but in a military setting would it be possabile to do that?

Larbre34

As I keep saying, when all other avenues have been exhausted, whatever remains must be the answer.

There is full employment and a shortage of practical skills and trades. Whatever has to be done to get 8 Naval ships to sea, has to be done.

vswr

I've technical engineering skills that they're crying out for. Initially, when I looked into joining many years ago, I asked about training etc... from people inside, and they pretty much said you needed to be young and in the clique to advance in anything technical. I know someone who has applied for the Electronics Ord.Degree in Carlow, no less than 7 times over the years, passed the tests 4 times, and has been given all the excuses under the sun not to go. They are now trained of their own accord to a similar level, but it's not recognised inside as they weren't military approved courses... they will walk into a job outside of the military.

It's not just widening of the bracket which will fix things, the internals of the military are rotten.

Would I go in now with the skills I have, not a chance. Seeing things done properly in industry and having to go into a rotten understaffed core, where, because of rank, your opinion is easily over-ridden or not passed up... is my idea of hell... Corporations fail because of that type of culture.

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759961#Comment_121759961

The difference i am seeing now but is the attitude change good and bad. Lads these days will not except any BS such as working extra hours or doing anything outside there contract.

I work with Construction, Manufacturing and Agri companys and you would not belivie the change and mostly for the better as workers after covid seen thet where just a number.

Larbre34

Yeah its true, there has never been such a skills shortage in practically every sector of employment in the history of the State. Not in the Celtic Tiger, not ever.

The 6,000+ apps to AGS is encouraging, but the question is; of those, how many want to be a Garda as their first preference for a career, and are not just kicking tyres in many sectors.

roadmaster

Did the recomendation that the IRCG be moved to Dept of Defence go anywhere or has it been quietly forgotten?

roadmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121882349#Comment_121882349

Its mentioned in the article below from last year.

https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-commission-on-defence-forces-irish-military-5675978-Feb2022/

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764502#Comment_121764502

good point re tyre kickers, or even if most of those are a ‘fit’ for AGS ? …. No point recruiting lemons. Re the wider point of DF recruitment the wider full employment piece will IMHO continue to create difficulties. Hard to see us coming anyway close to hitting the targets

Grassy Knoll

Interesting report from German - some has a familiar ring ...

https://www.ft.com/content/fcac6167-282f-4bc7-b523-e858db55accb

German military still faxes documents and cannot radio allies, official warns Armed forces’ communications systems in woeful state and in need of ‘mammoth’ investment, says commissioner overseeing Bundeswehr As of the end of 2023, Germany employs 181,000 soldiers but 20,000 roles remain unfilled German military still faxes documents and cannot radio allies, official warns on x (opens in a new window) German military still faxes documents and cannot radio allies, official warns on facebook (opens in a new window) German military still faxes documents and cannot radio allies, official warns on linkedin (opens in a new window) Share Save current progress 100% Sam Jones in Berlin YESTERDAY 146 Print this page Radios that cannot communicate with allies; paper-only medical records that need to be mailed; military documents sent by fax, rather than secure email. The German armed forces’ digital and communications systems are in a woeful state, Eva Högl, the commissioner responsible for overseeing the Bundeswehr, warned on Tuesday. Her comments come a week after a Russian wiretapping scandal embarrassed military leaders and plunged the government of Olaf Scholz into fresh political turmoil. “This urgently needs to be changed . . . and it has to be done quickly,” said Högl, an independent official appointed by the German parliament, when presenting her annual report. “Why are we where we are? Because not enough investment was made in the past . . . we are now realising the seriousness of this.” Högl warned of a “mammoth” investment challenge still facing the German military two years after Scholz’s promise of a Zeitenwende — a major turning point — in German security policy, following Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022. “The Bundeswehr is under enormous pressure,” Högl said, reeling off a list of problems caused by years of under-investment, from “mouldering” and “dilapidated” barracks to a potentially disastrous shortfall in personnel. The digital problems facing the military, detailed in the 175-page report, were particularly glaring: barracks and training facilities that have no WiFi, and in some that do, soldiers have to pay for its use. On one Nato exercise last year troops were using unencrypted radios from the 1980s that could not communicate with allies. Medical records are still kept entirely on paper — raising the question of how quickly doctors treating seriously injured troops on the battlefield could expect to receive them in a real war. This year Germany hit its Nato target of spending 2 per cent on defence for the first time since the end of the cold war, thanks to a huge €100bn special fund set up by Scholz’s government to pump urgently needed funds into military reform. The fruits of the additional spending are now beginning to be felt — although much has been allocated to long-term procurement projects. With the fund already due to be exhausted by 2027, military experts are increasingly asking what will come next — and pointing to huge capability deficits that still exist in German’s armed forces. “Getting the Bundeswehr fully operational . . . will continue to cost a lot of money,” Högl said. “The Bundeswehr still has too little of everything: there is a lack of ammunition, spare parts, radios, tanks, ships and aircraft.” The commissioner visited 90 different military bases last year in Germany and abroad and received statements and evidence from just under 4,000 troops. Alongside digital and communications problems, the commissioner cited recruitment and infrastructure as the two biggest challenges for the Bundeswehr. “On the subject of personnel, I have no good news and no good tidings,” she reported, pointing to the fact that Germany’s armed forces actually shrank in size last year, rather than growing as is urgently needed. As of the end of 2023, the armed forces employ 181,000 soldiers. Twenty-thousand roles are unfilled, Högl said. Recommended The Big Read Will Germany deliver on its grand military ambitions? Poor infrastructure hinders military readiness and also adds to the personnel problem, she continued, pointing to how unattractive most bases were as places for people to live. Money was only part of the problem in both instances, she said. Often German military bureaucracy and “sluggishness” was the more immediate challenge. At least €50bn is needed to be spent on upgrading infrastructure in 7,000 separate projects, for example, but the current military organisation responsible is only able to handle €1.3bn of projects annually. She praised raising investments that have finally started to arrive and lauded defence minister Boris Pistorius, who she said recognised the problems well and was working to address them. But, she concluded: “We do not yet have fully operational armed forces.”

roadmaster

With a small reshuffle in government likely i wonder could we see Defence get a full minister so some one can drive the commission report?

sparky42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121922825#Comment_121922825

I imagine the reshuffle would be relatively limited to the FG side, not very hopefully defence would be elevated.

Grassy Knoll

Ya I’d say the current arrangement is as good as it gets. Tanaiste would be a heavyweight, as these things go, for all the good this does.

Larbre34

There will be no significant reshaping of portfolios <12 months from an election.

Personally I have no major issue with Defence and Foreign Affairs being a joint portfolio. I cannot envisage any scenario where any current Minister, if in charge of Defence alone, could have advanced the programme of change any further than it has been.

In any case, in the current geopolitical situation, traditional Irish foreign affairs concerns have been largely replaced with issues which are matters of Defence also.

roadmaster

As per the commission report the ATCP role is been wound down around the country. The 2 million that is mentioned for portlaoise is that out of the DOJ budget?

CrabRevolution

Maximum age for recruitment into military reserves to be set at 53 (irishexaminer.com)

Not sure how much practical difference it will make, as I don't see huge numbers of people in their 40s and 50s wanting to join the reserves. They mention it as a way to get former PDF&RDF members into the reserves, but they can currently re-enlist up until age 45 anyway.

A second thing I note is that the outsourcing of Medicals has been presented by the government as a done deal, with Micheál Martin stating in the Dáil earlier this month that "There is a contract in place to outsource the Part 2 medicals over a four-year period for both the PDF and the RDF, amounting to some 10,000 medicals in total...".

But from the attached article; "(Neil Richardson,RDFRA Rep) said that a proposal to outsource medical examinations to a private company had not come to fruition."

So who is lying....?

Larbre34

Who gives a **** who does the medicals so long as they don't form a blockage in the system?

But more widely, medical plans for all DF members and their immediate families need to be guaranteed to a gold standard to improve recruitment and retention. If we cannot compete with certain sectors taking military talent (and we really cannot), then we have to take a holistic approach to looking after their life needs, so that they will not have any concerns with housing or health or providing for their families, whether in service at home or overseas.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121934551#Comment_121934551

But they do form a blockage in the system. They're the source of the biggest delay in the recruiting process.

mupper2

paschaldonohoe.ie/minister-donohoe-announces-additional-funding-of-e2-25-billion-for-public-capital-projects-out-to-2026/

*Funding the Level of Ambition 2 programme in the Defence Forces*

*Revised NDP Capital funding for defence

2024 -€ 176m

2025- € 215m

2026- € 220m*

Larbre34

He's going to be Taoiseach for 11 months. Assuming the Tánaiste's portfolios do not change, then I can't see the general approach of this Government changing very much either.

Will be interesting to see what Harris' remarks around policy will be when he is appointed.

roadmaster

The increase for next year for the extra 2 helicopters, MRV downpayment and Radar downpayment?

jonnybigwallet

If it'll even stretch that far!

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121887615#Comment_121887615

at least they still use paragraphs

Larbre34

This seems to be the issue all over NATO's European members, including Britain.

Only Macron is trying to alert people about it, but that is largely because he wants to put the spotlight on Marine Le Pen's Putin affiliations ahead of the Euro elections.

kenny80

HSenior army officer slams government defence plan as 'catastrophic' and 'act of self-harm'
https://jrnl.ie/6348721

jonnybigwallet

Lets see if Varadkars successor takes any of this on board. Not very optimistic myself.

roadmaster

So at the end of Q1 they were suppouse to have.

RDF Vision & Regeneration

Cyber Defence Update

Armour needs phase complete

Naval Fleet Needs phase well on the way

Extra Medium lift Needs Phase ( To be bought in Q4)

vswr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122000024#Comment_122000024

lets do nothing…. mission accomplished…. tea and medals all round

Uinseann_16

The medical's are causing a huge issue with recruitment lads are getting fed up of waiting for dates for medicals 2-6 months I've heard in some cases

Along with that many serving PDF don't have up to date medicals because of the backlog... No medical no courses , no medical no overseas etc

It's a role that can be most certainly completed by a civilian but that would just make too much sense ...

Manic Moran

FWIW, we use a mix of army personnel and civilian contractors to run our annual medicals here in the US. Maybe 60/40 at a rough guess.