Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733483#Comment_119733483

It's not a phobia, it's a real fear @astrofool

Being honest I went out of my dept into a wave I couldn't handle. My own fault. I admit that I did something stupid and paid the price.

Riley's wave isn't for the faint hearted. Usually guys who have that fear gene switched off paddle out there. I had the silly gene switched on that morning. Although I caught two good one's, the third set swallowed me up and spat me out onto the slab.

But thanks for the suggestion.

Maybe I'm getting too old for pushing myself beyond my limitations.

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725813#Comment_119725813

Talking about small sample size. 

CDC downgraded the J&J vaccine indicating that it should only be used when mRNA is not available. This decision effectively ‘killed’ the J&J vaccine. Sample size = 9 deaths for which ‘causal association’ was established.

In comparison the Florida study looked at a total number of 77 deaths that met the inclusion criteria for young men.  

Florida study is based on a much stronger data than a number of CDC or FDA studies that where still deemed good enough to shape the policy around vaccines and were used as endorsements for other measures and restrictions.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734417#Comment_119734417

The people who did the study said that it was one of its limitations, that further study was needed and that no policy decisions should be based on it.

The people who got vaccinated were not the same as the people who didn't get vaccinated.

It is reasonable to think that the vast majority of people with health issues considered themselves more vulnerable, and got vaccinated.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733710#Comment_119733710

I think a lot of people push beyond when they can, I know I certainly have, so not really something to blame yourself for, you can be lucky or unlucky with what happens when doing it, but it's not something I'd trust a hypnotherapist with :) (and there will be people where it works great and will extoll the virtues of it, but it was likely something they could have overcome by themselves anyway and the hypnotherapy either gave them the excuse or confidence to follow through on it).

PeadarCo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734533#Comment_119734533

At best most "alternative medicine" treatments work on the basis of the placebo effect. Which is grand if the treatment itself is essentially harmless and the illness/injury is minor. But for any remotely serious illness you need far more than the placebo effect. Faith in alternative medicine may stop a person seeking qualified medical help before its too late ie cancer. Also alternative medicine is largely unregulated and many of the remedies are dangerous eg Miracle mineral solution which is just a form of bleach.

For all the talk of big pharma people forget why there is so much regulation and testing required to get anything approved. It's to prevent scammers selling people stuff that doesn't work and people dying as a result.

There is huge money to be made in "alternative medicine" as you only need to come with a fancy story you can sell nearly anything to desperate/gullible/uninformed people.

Johnboy1951

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735037#Comment_119735037

For all the talk of big pharma people forget why there is so much regulation and testing required to get anything approved. It's to prevent scammers selling people stuff that doesn't work and people dying as a result.

That does not appear to have been in operation in the case of these Covid jabs ...... people being coerced and shamed to take them even before they are out of their trials.

People being persuaded the jabs would prevent illness although the initial trials did not even have that as an end point.

So much for 'regulation and testing' prior to being rolled out.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733307#Comment_119733307

People do have a choice. But whether its " right" or "wrong" while subjective to a degree, also depends on culture, education, and in this case of Covid vaccination, very importantly, as its a new choice, listening to accurate verifiable information.

If a person chooses to take their health information choices from Facebook or You Tube without adequate research into who they are hearing it from, and if the people delivering it have a political or economic bias, and that information results in them making choices that lead to harm, are you saying that nothing should be said to try to persuade them in another direction, or that that person cannot change their mind?

Sounds a little bit cultish to me... Once in, in Foreva?!

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735313#Comment_119735313

Well it won't be long until the pharma industry will tell everyone that taking the vaccines wasn't for protecting others, and only to protect yourself.

There wasn't much reading for research, it's very simple. It's suggested to take the vaccine if you're immunocompromised, elderly, or you are vulnerable. If you want to take it nobody's forcing you. If you don't want to take it, it's your own choice. If you're sure you're healthy and robust, you'll get a few harmless symptoms like a cold or a flu, other than that you'll be recovered in no time.

The media, political classes and marketing campaigns, will be in tribunals for misinformation and guilt shaming the unvaccinated. I assure you that. Not now but it's definitely being looked at. Or else it's possible that those minorities will be offered compensation and it'll be brushed under the carpet.

Forgiven not forgotten, a bit like The Coors song.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735310#Comment_119735310

"People being persuaded the jabs would prevent illness although the initial trials did not even have that as an end point."

This is an utterly disingenuous statement intended to deceive people.

Can you explain how a vaccine could generate an immune response to protect against infection and yet not protect against severe cases?

How do you get an illness if you don't get infected?

The trials operated under an entirely reasonable basis, based on known immunology principles.

walus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735365#Comment_119735365

Another possibility is for the unvaccinated to form a 'control group' for future studies. That is going to be a tiny and sought after group of p1ssed off individuals with how they were treated.

PeadarCo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735310#Comment_119735310

The trials for all the Covid vaccines had ended. Yes they were done quicker but the biggest limitation normally is money. If you throw enough money at something you will get things far far quicker. More money means more people resources etc.

A classic example are the moon landings in the 1960/70s, the US threw huge amounts of money at the project. As result things were done far far quicker than their current moon programme today. That's despite the huge advances in technology and knowledge about working in space in the intervening years.

The idea that the Covid vaccines are and were untested is conspiratorial nonsense. I appreciate that's blunt but the idea vaccines don't work/we're untested etc shows a fundamental lack of knowledge about how the entire regulatory process works for all medicines including vaccines. This nonsense has been rebutted countless times in this forum and on the thread in the conspiracy theories forum.

DLink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735365#Comment_119735365

Well it won't be long until the pharma industry will tell everyone that taking the vaccines wasn't for protecting others, and only to protect yourself.

Any remaining credibility of the pharma companies, WHO, government & public health officials will be in the shítter if they try and pull that stunt, especially considering the (almost) forced vaccinations (no vax = no barcode = no pub / travel / life), not to mention the browbeating of people who either didn't get vaccinated or the people who got vaccinated just to get the fúck away from this prison island, but complained about the vax while escaping (anything to get away from here).

Don't forget the #forusall rubbish.

We were told the vaccine was to protect us from each other, because if the vaccine was to protect me from me, I'd have told them where to shove it!

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735424#Comment_119735424

The trials for moderna and pfizer haven't ended yet actually. Not sure about the others

https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj.o1731

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735724#Comment_119735724

The approval trials ended long ago, like anything in medicine, studies are going to be ongoing, forever. Even paracetamol has multiple new trials and studies running every year:

Early PARacetamol (EPAR) Trial: A Randomized Controlled Trial of Early Paracetamol to Promote Closure of the Ductus Arteriosus in Preterm Infants - Abstract - Neonatology 2021, Vol. 118, No. 3 - Karger Publishers

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735365#Comment_119735365

So who is it then, who is looking at a tribunal accusing government et al of 'misinformation' and sins against the invaccinated?

I'd love to hear you name them here, lol!

72sheep

The vaccine protected the elderly/vulnerable, which was a great achievement, but that should have been the end of it.

Instead the media was primed (paid?*) to relentlessly SCREAM LIES at us about how vaccines prevent transmission. Unbelievably in Ireland they are still at it. Tubridy this week, while interviewing some conspiracy theorist expert, quickly inserted a comment about the evil anti-vaxxers who would not just row in and take the Covid shot. [* Eagle-eyed entrepreneurs might observe that the addressable market for the vaccine is reduced by 6 or 7 Billion people (per shot) if only the old/vulnerable were to be vaccinated.]

In a similar vein, watch the Irish media "educate" us on our neutrality and how all those Lockheed Martin, Nothrop Grumman and Raytheon biz dev sc*m now in Dublin are really here to protect us ;-) #somuchcare #sosomuchcare

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736873#Comment_119736873

There were no lies. The vaccines did prevent transmission.

If you're not infected, you're not going to spread it.

At the time the vaccines were being rolled out, the vaccines showed very significant protection against infection - ranging from 90% to 60% within 6 months of vaccination.

You have made a statement of fact that it was a lie that is medical misinformation.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732319#Comment_119732319

'Fact-checker' is mostly an instrument to define increasingly narrowing corridors of 'allowed' debate/opinion. Thinly veiled censorship you could say. They have them for almost every major political and social subject now.

Beasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736873#Comment_119736873

Conspiracy theory nonsense and not for the first time

Threadbanned

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736491#Comment_119736491

Just sit back and wait, it could be a few years. But there was a minority of people who were treated quite badly by a lot of people, including by the media and others .

You do know that it's wrong to vilify a minority of people who have rights and as a collective did nothing wrong, nor did they deserve it.

Answer me this, do you think it was right the way the unvaccinated were left out in the cold ?

lizzyjane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736897#Comment_119736897

Pfizer didn't even test whether or not it prevented transmission.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737685#Comment_119737685

And what?

This is misleading information which establishes NOTHING.

The decision to bring in vaccine mandates was not based just on Pfizer data, but on health authorities based on followup studies.

People posting this information as if it is some big GOTCHA when all it shows is how easily they can be misled.

https://twitter.com/rachelschraer/status/1580226291214667776

lizzyjane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737691#Comment_119737691

And the re writing of history begins.

https://twitter.com/ThePollLady/status/1580415211307421696?t=7qK9biD_7TNMlXdzhiihWA&s=19

This was the day and night coverage on most mainstream media outlets telling people it stopped transmission.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737715#Comment_119737715

Yeah, and that's only the tip of the iceberg.

@odyssey06 I only mentioned something similar the other day. Like I said before just because we don't always agree Im aware you do post interesting points which are helpful.

But what do you think about this one.

The backtracking has started, like I mentioned about something before a lot of people got caught up in hysteria and were blindsided by their limited and narrow outlook.

There's nothing wrong with the realization that one's been hoodwinked, bamboozled or misinterpreted something. It's called learning the hard way or being cautious. And waiting for more information.

Being erroneous or misguided isn't a bad thing.

Defeatist isn't bad either.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737755#Comment_119737755

The only people hoodwinked are those who think this claim is some sort of gotcha. It isn't.

The anti-vaxxers are unable to challenge the actual evidence, instead they rely on these gotcha claims to deceive people.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737715#Comment_119737715

How about responding to the actual rebuttal instead of just posting more misleading information?

Vaccines stop transmission. There is abundant evidence of this.

You are running away from the actual evidence of this and instead trying to win the argument by using an out of context quote.

Regular testing of participants in the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine trials, with or without symptoms, found positive tests fell by more than half.

a later study of 40,000 health workers in England suggested one Pfizer-BioNTech dose cut the risk of infection - symptomatic or otherwise - by 70%, and two doses by 85%.

People living with vaccinated NHS staff in Scotland were considerably less likely to catch the virus than those living with unvaccinated health workers, providing direct evidence the jab can protect others.

And a separate analysis of the test results of hospital workers in Cambridge found a 75% decrease in asymptomatic infections after vaccination.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56514470

live4tkd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736897#Comment_119736897

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737685#Comment_119737685

https://twitter.com/Rob_Roos/status/1579759795225198593

https://twitter.com/Toibin1/status/1580158869757575169

This was the tweet.

Apothic_Red

I reported earlier in this thread that my wife was a swabber & their contracts were being terminated at the end of the month thereby quietly closing down the public PCR testing facilities.

Well someone in the HSE has got nervous & now they are having their contracts renewed, expectation is for a minimum of 2 months but they fully expect to run over Christmas. She freely admits that they are bored out of their tree, sometimes only swabbing less than 10 people a day against 450 back in Jan 2021. She has her own business & uses the time to book clients & look after her accounts.

So the train rolls on.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737840#Comment_119737840

Aontú plunging the depths of depravity, Sinn Féin are well shot of that absolute idiot (Peadar Tóibín). Hopefully Donnelly hands his ass to him in the Dáil over this.

The approval data was very clear on what the trials were looking for (efficacy against symptoms and severe disease with symptoms being the end point for trials).

It will be interesting to see which dum dum politicians latch onto this and which boards users debase themselves further over their complete misunderstanding of vaccines.

(and the memes parrotted here made by the ~12 anti-vax nutters that produce 90% of the content).

corcaigh07

The tweets are not talking about efficacy against symptoms and severe disease with symptoms though, you're changing the narrative to suit there a bit.

MSM and Government pushed hard on vaccines cutting out transmission and it's only right that this is questioned. Too late of course.