Is WHS fit for purpose

billy3sheets · 06-09-2022 7:28pm

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578819#Comment_119578819

The vast majority of golfers aren't into building handicaps though. Quite the opposite in fact, most are trying really hard to get down. Shouldn't we have a system that works for the majority rather than one designed to stop cheats?

big_drive · 07-09-2022 12:06pm

Yes

My own take is no matter what system is in place you'll have people who try to find a way to play the system, so I'm not sure any perfect solution exists.

slave1 · 17-09-2022 4:05pm

Yikes!

mjsc1970 · 17-09-2022 4:45pm

No

Think this was mentioned on the other WHS thread. Yep, it's insane

Rikand · 17-09-2022 5:37pm

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119631004#Comment_119631004

If you go through the rest of their medals, there's a lot of very low scoring in the strokeplay competitions there. from all handicaps

chasingbirdies · 18-09-2022 7:08am

Yes

Voted yes - because I like it for myself, I like that its all done automatically & I like the fact that you can submit general play scores because often times I can't get out on competition days

I think for the honest player its a good system , but for the dishonest player its to easy to manipulate - but I honestly don't see how people like the above person in question can genuinely walk around their golf club or community with such scores and not be embarrassed

Seve OB · 18-09-2022 10:17am

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119631286#Comment_119631286

Yes and if you go through them again apparently that guy goes out and shoots 122 midweek….. and has “won”4 of their 6 medals this year

April 85-21

May 83-21

August 84-21

He didn’t win July but shot 86-21

in fairness it looked like the stars aligned for him with his 74 (unless this was the gold medal and he planned it like this to be sure to be sure) but regular shooting low 80’s in the medals and with 21 shots suggests nothing more than this guy is a prime example of someone who is gaming the system

gypsy79 · 18-09-2022 10:36am

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633132#Comment_119633132

He needs a ban as it is so blatant that he cannot argue

For the integrity of the system

If he was in my club I would be telling him every time I saw him what I thought of him. But his fellow members dont

mjsc1970 · 18-09-2022 2:31pm

No

This is doing the rounds on watsapp now.

Everyone will know about this shortly I'd say

Caddy cart · 18-09-2022 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634014#Comment_119634014

There is a audio with it as well. Yer man is not popular!!!

Macker1 · 19-09-2022 10:03pm

If the club are not willing to do something about the 4 time medal winner then Golf Ireland should. Its a feckin disgrace it makes a mockery of the game.

bakerbhoy · 20-09-2022 2:39am

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639507#Comment_119639507

GI will do fannie all.

Think upper civil service. One size fits all.

They will not stand behind any club /sec who attempts to reel these people in.

It's cheating but how can you prove someone is not giving their best effort.

Any cut/freeze can be wiped out in no time.

Casual 9 holes, couple of opens etc any cut is soon stricken from the record.

Rinse/repeat

New culture formed by the general body ..why bother, just let the h/cap drift out.

It's cancerous to the integrity of the game as we believed it to be.

Whs can work, but reform of current parameters has to happen.

Pro golfers h/cap exercise carried out gave a +6 to + 8.5

But didn't take into account the level of difficulty of the set ups on tour. That would put them in the 43/44pts range for a really exceptional round.That's 11 12 under par.

This should also be the landing area for h/cap golfers points wise.

prawnsambo · 20-09-2022 11:47am

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633132#Comment_119633132

I looked at their results overall, not just that one individual and they are all pretty mad scores. Loads of scores in the 60s and even low 60s. The slope rating of the course is quite low, but judging by those scores, it should be lower still. It's rated 121 off the backs and 118 off the normal tees. I'd be thinking below 113 on the basis of the scores being put in. Well below 113.

It's a public course with a max length of 5,659m and par of 70.

willabur · 20-09-2022 1:53pm

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119633132#Comment_119633132

I mean... that is so laughably blatant

Would love to hear an opinion of an honest golfer from that club what they make of that fella. I don't care what anyone says but shooting 74 on any course is incredible good golf. That's not just a good day for a 22 handicapper, that's not getting the stars to align.

I am playing off 7 and I haven't ever shot better than 76 on a par 70+ course.

Rikand · 20-09-2022 5:04pm

Yes

He's down to 13 now, courtesy of his good score

prawnsambo · 20-09-2022 9:36pm

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119642715#Comment_119642715

Also courtesy of an ESR of -2. He had a -1 earlier in the year.

Macker1 · 20-09-2022 10:26pm

Of course his hcap is down. Medal Hunting season is over. Don't worry he will most likely have a very poor run of form now till next year.

Seve OB · 21-09-2022 12:26am

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644099#Comment_119644099

Lol, I’m not sure he would have the nerve anymore now that the internet and what’s app groups are baying for his blood

brick tamland · 21-09-2022 9:26am

Any and every handicap system that could be used has flaws, and is open to cheating/handicap management ect, thats just the nature of amatuer golf

Is the system perfect? No. is it as good as Congu? Im not sure yet.

But, I think it makes sense i think to have the same system as Rest of the world.

prawnsambo · 21-09-2022 10:34am

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119644099#Comment_119644099

He's never broken 80 before (last ~180 rounds and >4 years) and only broken 90 14 times in the last 100.

bakerbhoy · 21-09-2022 1:08pm

No

Just received a mail from our Club Manager.

Men's and ladies Comms are holding a review of WHS with a view to a submission to GI .

We are asked to submit opinions etc.

PARlance · 21-09-2022 1:52pm

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119645293#Comment_119645293

Must have 'just clicked" for him at the four medals. We all dream of those days.

prawnsambo · 22-09-2022 10:07am

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119646156#Comment_119646156

Or maybe he had lessons. I'll give you an example from my club. Young lad joins the club and signs up for the junior camp. Puts in his first 9 hole card for handicap in June, can't break 100. Puts in his second late June, breaks 100, but not 95. Third breaks 95 but hasn't broken 90. Fourth card in mid July breaks 90. Then in August he breaks 85 over 18 holes.

Guess the handicap he gets.

PARlance · 22-09-2022 10:28am

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119649467#Comment_119649467

Maybe he had lessons... I have to say while I find your willingness to give the benefit of doubt / trust in the instances refreshing... but also extremely naïve.

A guy winning 4/6 medals and being very close to winning a fifth should be ringing alarm bells.

The fact that despite these great scores, his HC remained relatively constant should also be ringing alarm bells.

And making assumptions just based on his counting scores can be very flawed. From my knowledge of bandits, they generally either go out to win or go out to inflate their handicap in counting comps. Such a player could easily have many "practice" rounds in the lows 80's etc that go unrecorded.

I don't know the guy or have access to his records but at the very least, it's an extremely unusual set of events.