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N22 - Macroom to Ballyvourney (Macroom Bypass) [open to traffic]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭cargo


    Any mutterings coming out about a partial finish or indeed a date for a full finish (well open to traffic - tidy up works)



  • Registered Users Posts: 20 kegblag


    I heard several weeks ago the rumoured target was October bank holiday weekend for a partial opening. If I'm the only person who's heard that rumour I'd not take too much notice of it though.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    You aren’t - that rumour has been going around a while now. Any further works complete along Coolcower-Gurteenroe?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Full finish is still down as late next year - I’d guess October/November 2023. That date may slip due to the partial opening of the eastern end.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd



    I had a look at this on open street map and would work ok.

    Local traffic the town side of the potential tie in at Carrigaphuca could get to Macroom via the old road and anyone to the Kerry side of the tie in could get to Macroom on the new road via the Millstreet interchange.

    There'd be an odd house or potential routing that might have a longer way for the duration of the tie in being in operation but it wouldnt be drastically longer, and not enough of an inconvience to put off relieving 1000s of residents and motorists from the pain of a congested Macroom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    You haven’t considered local traffic that is not going to Macroom at all, and will continue to use the current N22. For these users, the new roundabout and link roads must remain open as they are now, and it is this that makes a tie-in so dangerous here:

    Local traffic from west of Macroom (the blue line) is in direct conflict with Killarney-origin traffic (green line) wishing to join the new road. The distance between the crossover point and the roundabout is barely 150 metres, and traffic that has just turned left off that roundabout will be naturally be accelerating, as will the right-turners joining the new road.

    If you were designing a layout to encourage high-speed frontal collisions, this would be a good starting point. And to save less than two and a half minutes of travelling time bypassing a free-moving road at a lower speed limit with one at a higher limit?

    And as for relieving Macroom, opening from Coolcower to the Millstreet Road will do this already. The western edge of Macroom town does not suffer from traffic congestion except as a result of eastbound traffic backing up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Would a temporary roundabout not solve this problem? If there is to be a partial opening, anything other than Carrigaphooca is sub-optimal, IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    There isn’t room for a temporary roundabout on the new link road, and one could not be built on the dual carriagway. Maps are flat, and that’s fooling a lot of people, but the terrain here is not: at their closest point, there’s a considerable difference in height between the new and old roads (around 3 metres, I think), and that makes any tie-in more dangerous and expensive.

    I don’t get why the partial opening as far as Millstreet Road is now seen as a poor option - it means that for the first time in decades, Macroom town centre will not be choked by traffic. To me, that is a major win.

    All other problems on either side of Macroom are due to that congestion within the town centre. If I’ve been stuck in traffic before the Auld Triangle (west of the Millstreet Rd), that traffic jam has lasted all the way through Macroom to Coolcower. Once you fix the centre, there’s really no need for a longer-distance opening, because traffic will be running freely on the old N22 between Millstreet Rd and Carrigaphuca.

    And 18 months from now, the whole thing will open, and whether or not a a tie-in was built won’t matter - it seems like a lot of effort, cost and risk to go to for such a small benefit for such a short length of time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 dunsie2013


    https://www.linkedin.com/posts/jons-civil-engineering-company-ltd_pavement-civil-engineering-activity-6973635336396537857-KevB?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_ios

    First time poster, Thanks to all the contributors and Dronehawk for sharing your knowledge (both local and technical).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 35 RockCastle


    Michael Creed is saying on his latest Facebook post that the bypass between Coolcour and Carrigapooka will open before the end of the year so that confirms that it wont be just as far as the Millstreet junction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭dmeehan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    If you’d rather not hear (several times) about just how instrumental Mr Creed was in this project, he mentions the tie-in locations at 1’26” in the Facebook video posted above.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    View today from Clonfadda Bridge, looking west towards Carrigaphooca.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭dmeehan


    this comment became immediately relevant upon watching the video from the start



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  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭confidentjosh


    Here's a very good recent update video:




  • Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭CB19Kevo


    Is there any update as to when a tie in can be expected and the location?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Scroll up six posts: Local TD Michael Creed has said that it'll be "before the end of the year", at Carrigaphuca.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    This does seem to be confirmed by where the surfacing and finishing works seem to have stopped. I say this as I wouldn't trust anything a politician says!

    How this tie-in will actually be achieved is still a mystery to all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I am sceptical of Carrigaphuca, but fairly sure that the new road will be open at least as far as Millstreet Road by the end of the year.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I took the bull by the horns and emailed them, asking. Got a reply back from a very helpful gentleman. I'm sure they look at this thread themselves too so I won't post it.

    The gist of it is that despite recent rumours and announcements, nothing is officially confirmed and everything is still at the discussion phase. Nor is the tie-in location officially confirmed. Reading between the lines I'd say they can't say any more than that.


    However Carrigphooca is being looked at and a temporary roundabout there is has potential where the two roads are parallel, just west of the bridge. I certainly got the impression that it is doable. He also mentioned that an announcement may be made shortly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭cantalach


    As I’ve said before, an opening as far as Carrigaphooca might be legally difficult. Planning permission was never sought for a junction at that location so it would be “unplanned development” as the term goes. If I can’t knock an 800mm wide pedestrian entrance in the garden wall of my house without planning permission, they surely won’t be able to do that, even if temporary. I genuinely hope I’m wrong but rules are rules.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    ... and your garden gate won't constitute a traffic hazard.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    The first layer of ashphalt was going down at the section in Carrigaphooka where the roads are almost the same level, to me it looks very unlikely there will be any tie in there and it will be the Millstreet road option, I hope I'm wrong but we will see.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭holdfast


    Good point on the planning, plus it around the land owner that took the case to stop the road for years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 197 ✭✭arsebiscuits82


    Must be something planned, the road markings are down now. They’re wouldn’t be done too early for fear of getting them damaged by site plant



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Where are the road-markings down? Coolcower or Carraigaphuca? It's almost certain that Coolcower to Millstreet road will open soon. The uncertainty is whether the section between Millstreet Road and the crossing point of the old and new roads at Carraigaphuca will also be included.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Road markings seem to be down from Coolcower to Millstreet Road, work ongoing on the central barrier too.

    Going by the Macroom Notice Board Facebook group it seems like it’ll be opening from Coolcower to Carrigaphooca with a temporary tie in at Carrigaphooca.

    Not sure how it’ll work in practice but that seems to be the rumour anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I really can't see how they can do a safe tie-in. Happy to be proven wrong, of course...

    But if the central barrier is going in, that suggests a full opening, at 100 km/h, which is fantastic news.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Getting very close now



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Surprised a concrete central barrier isn’t being used. It would be much safer for motorcyclists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38 Imeacht gan teacht ort


    The new compact metal barriers are the safest of all, that's why they're using them from now on on Type 2 DCs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Could a motorcyclist not hit one of the uprights?



  • Registered Users Posts: 38 Imeacht gan teacht ort


    I think that the barriers on each side are so close to each other that it's too small a gap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Type 2 DCs (like this) get jersey barriers, only motorways get concrete barriers.

    This hardening of the rules basically came in when the M6 Ballinasloe to Athlone was built with a jersey barrier and AFAIK the contractor wouldn't change it and nor did they have to. So rules were put in place for other schemes.

    No more wire barriers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭cantalach


    Wow! Really is ready to go. Only to-do is finishing the access roads at the Millstreet Road junction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001



    Jersey barriers are the concrete type. The metal barriers are generally called “Armco” (although that’s a trademark; it’s the name of the American company that first made this type of metal fencing). I believe the catch-all technical term for these barriers is “Vehicle Restraint Systems” (VRS).

    As long as a barrier meets a particular technical standard, it can be used. TII does recommend the Jersey type for motorways, I suspect because of it’s very low maintenance in the event of a crash.

    The “2+2 sized” dual-carriageway Waterford ring road (R710) uses a jersey barrier rather than a metal fence.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I'm not sure I like the fact that there's no emergency lane. One could easily be rear-ended at speed in the event of a breakdown.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    There are lay-bys every few km:

    Even outside of these, the verge is wide enough to pull over onto. It's hard to get an idea of how wide the road is with no cars on it, but there is room.

    The sight-lines are so long on this road that anyone who rear-ended you at speed would have had about a minute or so to pick the exact spot where they wanted to hit your car.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,241 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I'd prefer the concrete barriers for no other reason than it goes some way towards blocking the view of opposing traffic and headlights.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Traffic volumes on 2+2s are sufficiently low that in lane breakdowns and associated lane closure shouldn’t affect the operating performance of the road.

    We’ve had 2+2s in Ireland for years and it hasn’t been an issue, although the section of this road between Millstreet Road and Ballyvourney will be the longest uninterrupted stretch of 2+2 in the country at around 12km



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Thanks. I was getting muddles between my Jerseys, my Armcos and my cheese-graters!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Is the section between Coolcower and Millstreet Junction not also 2+2?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I think Marno is referring to the section between Toonlane Lunction east of Baile Bhuirne, and Millstreet Road junction. At nearly 12km long this would be the longest section of uninterrupted 2+2 road in the country:

    Here’s where the junctions are

    Chainage (km) Junction

    -0.2 Baile Bhuirne, Compact GSJ

    5.0 Toonlane, Compact GSJ

    16.5 Macroom, Millstreet Road, Compact GSJ

    21.6 Macroom, Coolcower, Roundabout

    (the zero km mark is not necessarily the start of new construction - that’s why the Baile Bhuirne junction is at -200 m)



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Thank you kindly for that explanation that’s significantly more detailed than any attempt I would have made

    It’ll be useful for TII to gauge how a such an uninterrupted stretch of this route type performs under real life conditions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭gooseman12



    Maybe i'm not seeing it, or i'm looking at the wrong place, but the last few seconds of the video dont appear to show any indication of works on a tie in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,754 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I can only see one possibility:

    .. that does close off a site-access road, though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭Gunner3629




  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭cartoncowboy


    Fantastic work being done on this huge and challenging project. Will be a gamechanger when it all opens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    is there any estimated time savings for the whole scheme. Time saving in heavy traffic and low traffic conditions? Assume it should knock off 10 min when the entire scheme is opened?



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