N22 - Macroom to Ballyvourney (Macroom Bypass) [open to traffic]

marno21 · 04-10-2022 12:13pm

Traffic volumes on 2+2s are sufficiently low that in lane breakdowns and associated lane closure shouldn’t affect the operating performance of the road.

We’ve had 2+2s in Ireland for years and it hasn’t been an issue, although the section of this road between Millstreet Road and Ballyvourney will be the longest uninterrupted stretch of 2+2 in the country at around 12km

Chris_5339762 · 04-10-2022 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119698561#Comment_119698561

Thanks. I was getting muddles between my Jerseys, my Armcos and my cheese-graters!

AugustusMinimus · 04-10-2022 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119699276#Comment_119699276

Is the section between Coolcower and Millstreet Junction not also 2+2?

KrisW1001 · 05-10-2022 8:17am

I think Marno is referring to the section between Toonlane Lunction east of Baile Bhuirne, and Millstreet Road junction. At nearly 12km long this would be the longest section of uninterrupted 2+2 road in the country:

Here’s where the junctions are

Chainage (km) Junction

-0.2 Baile Bhuirne, Compact GSJ

5.0 Toonlane, Compact GSJ

16.5 Macroom, Millstreet Road, Compact GSJ

21.6 Macroom, Coolcower, Roundabout

(the zero km mark is not necessarily the start of new construction - that’s why the Baile Bhuirne junction is at -200 m)

marno21 · 05-10-2022 9:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119702948#Comment_119702948

Thank you kindly for that explanation that’s significantly more detailed than any attempt I would have made

It’ll be useful for TII to gauge how a such an uninterrupted stretch of this route type performs under real life conditions.

gooseman12 · 05-10-2022 12:11pm

Maybe i'm not seeing it, or i'm looking at the wrong place, but the last few seconds of the video dont appear to show any indication of works on a tie in.

KrisW1001 · 05-10-2022 5:11pm

I can only see one possibility:

.. that does close off a site-access road, though.

Gunner3629 · 06-10-2022 11:02am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z03cLsNQ5Hk

Stage 2 drone update:

cartoncowboy · 06-10-2022 11:21am

Fantastic work being done on this huge and challenging project. Will be a gamechanger when it all opens.

AugustusMinimus · 06-10-2022 12:18pm

is there any estimated time savings for the whole scheme. Time saving in heavy traffic and low traffic conditions? Assume it should knock off 10 min when the entire scheme is opened?

Chris_5339762 · 06-10-2022 1:02pm

I did one many pages ago, but god knows where to find it!

Gunner3629 · 06-10-2022 1:05pm

In peak traffic hours, much more than 10 mins.

Countdown is on to opening stage 1.

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/corkman/lifestyle/how-many-sleeps-until-the-macroom-bypass-is-traffic-ready-42043018.html

As regards entire completion, looking at spring time.

“We are on schedule to complete the project by the final quarter of 2023,”

yerwanthere123 · 06-10-2022 1:10pm

I think the estimated time was 15-17 minutes. Certainly longer than 10.

hans aus dtschl · 06-10-2022 2:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708523#Comment_119708523

Yep I seem to remember pretty much what you're saying, around 16mins on average. It's a lot, for me: a very big improvement.

dmeehan · 06-10-2022 4:48pm

No mention of a partial opening in the latest news letter: http://www.n22bbm.ie/nuachtlitir-uimh-9-newsletter-no-9/

😕

KrisW1001 · 06-10-2022 4:55pm

The existing route from Coolcower to the point west of Baile Bhuirne where the new road ends is 20.4 km. Google claims it would take 23 minutes on the existing N22, obeying all speed limits, with zero traffic delays. That seems about right given that much of the route is under 60km/h or lower limits.

The new road will be 21.6 km long and run at 100 km/h for the whole length, which gives a 13 minute journey time obeying all speed limits with zero traffic delays.

That’s the very worst case for time saved. In reality, the time savings will be much greater: It once took me over 20 minutes to get from Macroom Motors at the eastern edge of the town to the Castle Hotel on the Square.

hans aus dtschl · 07-10-2022 10:58am

Yep getting rid of the "edge case" is what I'm looking forward to: those days where you're bumper to bumper the whole way. I'm reasonably confident there were times where this road would have saved me more than 30 minutes.

mydiscworld · 07-10-2022 11:57am

So if they don't open the finished Macroom bypass side as they can't find a safe tie in area, how long will the Baile Bhuirne side hold it up by, 6 months?

And I know it'll still be on time overall, but frustrating to see Macroom side ready to go, which is the biggest bottlekneck, and not open

AugustusMinimus · 07-10-2022 1:15pm

Slightly off topic but what are the options for the Cork - Macroom section and how would they plan the tie in with Coolcower.

I’m still surprised that the bypass didn’t start at the bridge before Dunisky and go straight on instead of going over the Lee.

Assume they’ll now abandon the current alignment and drive south after Lissarda to tie in with Coolcower.

KrisW1001 · 07-10-2022 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712400#Comment_119712400

If they can’t tie in at Carrigaphuca, they can still open between Coolcower and Millstreet Road - that would bypass most of Macroom, especially the Square and the bridge which are the main cause of the current jams.

AugustusMinimus · 07-10-2022 2:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119713145#Comment_119713145

The junction where the Millstreet Road lands into the town would be a disaster. I’d imagine it would be workable if this was a roundabout.

KrisW1001 · 07-10-2022 3:33pm

I don’t get where the opposition to this is coming from. It would be about a million times better than not opening the road, and would only be for 9-10 months in any case. Plus, most of the current problems with turning right onto N22 at this point are because there’s so much traffic rolling through Macroom.

AugustusMinimus · 07-10-2022 4:04pm

The other option would be to reline the road to give R582 to N22 West with N22 to Macroom side having to yield.

KrisW1001 · 07-10-2022 4:20pm

... or traffic lights could be installed. Once the need to carry N22 traffic has gone, there’s a lot that can be done to fix up the main east-west street through Macroom. I expect there will be lots of traffic-calming and road narrowing started once the bypass is in place.

Corkladddd!! · 07-10-2022 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119709632#Comment_119709632

I'm still hopeful, the rumour mill is that the current Taoiseach has been told (read he has mandated) that he'll get to open the first section before he hands over the ropes...

spacetweek · 07-10-2022 7:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708298#Comment_119708298

It's not just time savings - the new road will be so much safer than the old.

marno21 · 11-10-2022 1:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119712760#Comment_119712760

There is a protected road corridor from Ovens to Macroom, remember this was originally the N22 Ballyvourney to Ovens scheme and was 46km in total, but was truncated to the 22km N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom when most of the roads programme got shitcanned back in 2011. It was visible on GeoHive but they seem to have changed their layers available and I can't find it. Basically it kept south of the existing N22 from Macroom to Ovens, bridge over the Lee at Coolcower House and stayed quite close to the N22 along much of the route (due to the terrain), but took a wider berth closer to Ovens away from the quarry at Garryhesta.

Unfortunately, at the minute Government policy seems allergic to projects such as this and until such time as this approach changes I can't see anything being done about it. There is 9km of extremely dangerous road that'll be taking even higher volumes of traffic once the bypass opens (a lot of traffic that currently heads back to Kerry and takes other routes will start using the new route - routes via Millstreet/Mallow/Rathmore/Ballydesmond will become less attractive), and there are a significant number of deficiencies - narrow road, poor sightlines, dangerous junctions, Lissarda, narrow bridges, busy junctions with high volumes of right turning traffic and heavy vehicles (the GP wood junction west of Lissarda/Crookstown (R590)/R585 near Crookstown Garda Station). The 15km from Lissarda to Ovens is significantly above capacity also and while being straight, flat and having hard shoulders, it has a ridiculous number of side roads and accesses to be regarded as safe.

Interestingly, during preparations for the NDP which was published in February 2018, a number of assessments were undertaken to decide which schemes should be prioritized for inclusion. The priority criteria for inclusion were:

Being part of the TEN-T Core/Comprehensive network
Having a volume:capacity radio of greater than 1.2
Being part of the NTA Greater Dublin Area transport strategy (caveat: no other city transport strategies had been published by then - CMATS in 2019)
Having a high head on/fatal head on collision rate (read below)
Links settlements of greater than 10,000 people (National Planning Framework)

One of the criteria was an assessment undertaken on the national primary network to ascertain which sections of the road network were most prone to head on and fatal head on collisions. There were four stretches of road which were found to have the highest rate on the network:

The N2 from Ardee to the Border

The N4 from Mullingar to Rooskey

The N20 from Cork to Limerick

The N22 from Ballincollig to Farranfore

ALL upgrades on the above 4 roads were included in the NDP with the exception of this scheme (N2 Ardee-Castleblayney, N2 Clontibret-Border, N4 Mullingar-Rooskey, M20 Cork-Limerick, N22 Farranfore-Killarney), those other schemes totalling more than 220km in length.

This N22 scheme also ticked the other 3 relevant boxes, it's well above 1.2 volume:capacity ratio, it's on the TEN-T comprehensive network, and it's linking large settlements.

It really deserves questioning why this is. In a modern, prosperous country that Ireland should aspire to be, why is a deathtrap like this road not being prioritised for replacement?

KrisW1001 · 11-10-2022 8:40am

I wouldn't be surprised if good old GAA-jersey politics played a part at a national level: having N20 and N22, both in Cork, prioritised while other parts of the country were waiting for infrastructure investment may have been a bad look, politically (in support of that argument, I'd note that the Kerry sections of N22 went ahead).

It's not favouritism to invest in projects in Cork, although it could be seen as rewarding failure (Cork Co Council did not cover itself in glory when it had charge of the national routes in the county). But still, the county has the worst roads in the country, by a long way: I still remember when you could tell you'd passed the county boundary because the road surface would suddenly improve.

Also, just a rumour, but I had heard that some objectors had threatened to drag Macroom-Ovens up and down every court in the land to prevent it being built. As usual, environmental concerns were the vehicle for this, but bluntly, some people didn't want a motorway unless they got a junction, and they weren't going to get one (see also, M28).