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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    What a fcuking joke. Let's hope this isn't the start of some schools going off on virtuous solo runs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭Micky 32


    I’m guessing the principal is one of those hashtag CovidIsNotOver fanatics.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,196 ✭✭✭Spudman_20000


    Surely schools don't get to decide on interventions like this on their lonesome? Lunacy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,241 ✭✭✭corcaigh07


    If the HSE can go off and pretend masks are mandatory, maybe some schools will think they can do the same?



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,169 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Personally I'd question is it done to keep one or two parents or staff members quiet. I wonder what type of enforcement they'd have for it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,988 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Also there's rogue principals. The principal of course will not be wearing a mask in their office.



  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭foxsake



    In the article, Mr Sunak said: "We didn't talk at all about missed [doctor's] appointments, or the backlog building in the NHS in a massive way. That was never part of it.

    "Whoever wrote the minutes for the SAGE meetings - condensing its discussions into guidance for government - would set the policy of the nation. No one, not even cabinet members, would know how these decisions were reached."

    was it any different here?

    cowards like Martin & Varadkar too willing to defer to single issue science opinion from professor types drunk on their own ego.

    a load of b0llocks - wasted 2 years , wasted lives and opportunities.

    *Edit

    and Donnelly should be burnt at the pyre.

    Post edited by foxsake on


  • Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭slystallone


    Is this still the case over there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭live4tkd



    Great to see all this type of stuff coming out but I fear it is too little too late! The damage is done.

    More here:

    The irony we had more severe lockdown policy at times so I wonder what the full effects of it here will be.

    Post edited by live4tkd on


  • Registered Users Posts: 674 ✭✭✭foxsake


    i agree - at least there is clarity and this should prevent this happening again.

    but what's done is done and sadly we all lost in the chaos. My only hope is for the future



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There is a lot of changed tactics recently. Yesterday youtube has changed its terms and conditions about covid, so channels will no longer receive strikes for talking negatively about covid.

    Even newstalk are starting to question the effects on health waiting lists from the restrictions.

    All this change of track at the same time, makes it seems like it's political manoeuvring.



  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭live4tkd


    Particularly striking extracts from the article which is probably repeated in this country and all the more reason we need a proper investigation and enquiry into this!

    This was the crux: no one really did. A cost-benefit calculation – a basic requirement for pretty much every public health intervention – was never made. ‘I wasn’t allowed to talk about the trade-off,’ says Sunak. Ministers were briefed by No. 10 on how to handle questions about the side-effects of lockdown. ‘The script was not to ever acknowledge them. The script was: oh, there’s no trade-off, because doing this for our health is good for the economy.’

    If frank discussion was being suppressed externally, Sunak thought it all the more important that it took place internally. But that was not his experience. ‘I felt like no one talked,’ he says. ‘We didn’t talk at all about missed [doctor’s] appointments, or the backlog building in the NHS in a massive way. That was never part of it.’ When he did try to raise concerns, he met a brick wall. ‘Those meetings were literally me around that table, just fighting. It was incredibly uncomfortable every single time.’ He recalls one meeting where he raised education. ‘I was very emotional about it. I was like: “Forget about the economy. Surely we can all agree that kids not being in school is a major nightmare” or something like that. There was a big silence afterwards. It was the first time someone had said it. I was so furious.’

    One of Sunak’s big concerns was about the fear messaging, which his Treasury team worried could have long-lasting effects. ‘In every brief, we tried to say: let’s stop the “fear” narrative. It was always wrong from the beginning. I constantly said it was wrong.’ The posters showing Covid patients on ventilators, he said, were the worst. ‘It was wrong to scare people like that.’ The closest he came to defying this was in a September 2020 speech saying that it was time to learn to ‘live without fear’ – a direct response to the Cabinet Office’s messaging. ‘They were very upset about that.’

    Lockdown – closing schools and much of the economy while sending the police after people who sat on park benches – was the most draconian policy introduced in peacetime. No. 10 wanted to present it as ‘following the science’ rather than a political decision, and this had implications for the wiring of government decision-making. It meant elevating Sage, a sprawling group of scientific advisers, into a committee that had the power to decide whether the country would lock down or not. There was no socioeconomic equivalent to Sage; no forum where other questions would be asked.

    So whoever wrote the minutes for the Sage meetings – condensing its discussions into guidance for government – would set the policy of the nation. No one, not even cabinet members, would know how these decisions were reached.

    In the early days, Sunak had an advantage. ‘The Sage people didn’t realise for a very long time that there was a Treasury person on all their calls. A lovely lady. She was great because it meant that she was sitting there, listening to their discussions.’

    It meant he was alerted early to the fact that these all-important minutes of Sage meetings often edited out dissenting voices. His mole, he says, would tell him: ‘“Well, actually, it turns out that lots of people disagreed with that conclusion”, or “Here are the reasons that they were not sure about it.” So at least I would be able to go into these meetings better armed.’

    But his victories were few and far between. One, he says, came in May 2020 when the first plans were being drawn to move out of lockdown in summer. ‘There’s some language in there that you will see because I fought for it,’ he says. ‘It talked about non-Covid health impact.’ Just a few sentences, he says, but he views the fact that lockdown side-effects were recognised at all at that point as a triumph.

    At the time, No. 10’s strategy was to create the impression that lockdown was a scientifically created policy which only crackpots dared question. If word leaked that the chancellor had grave reservations, or that a basic cost-benefit analysis had never been applied, it would have been politically unhelpful for No. 10.

    Only now can Sunak speak freely. He is opening up not just because he is running to be prime minister, he says, but because there are important lessons in all of this. Not who did what wrong, but how it came to pass that such important questions about lockdown’s profound knock-on effects – issues that will probably dominate politics for years to come – were never properly explored.

    And the other lessons of lockdown? ‘We shouldn’t have empowered the scientists in the way we did,’ he says. ‘And you have to acknowledge trade-offs from the beginning. If we’d done all of that, we could be in a very different place.’ How different? ‘We’d probably have made different decisions on things like schools, for example.’ Could a more frank discussion have helped Britain avoid lockdown entirely, as Sweden did? ‘I don’t know, but it could have been shorter. Different. Quicker.’

    There’s one major factor he doesn’t raise: the opinion polls. Lockdowns were being imposed all over a terrified world in March 2020 and the Prime Minister was already being accused of having blood on his hands by failing to act earlier. Surely whoever was in No. 10 would have been forced to lock down by public opinion? But the public, Sunak says, was being scared witless, while being kept in the dark about lockdown’s -likely effects. ‘We helped shape that: with the fear messaging, empowering the scientists and not talking about the trade-offs.’

    To Sunak, this was the problem at the heart of the government’s Covid response: a lack of candour. There was a failure to raise difficult questions about where all this might lead – and a tendency to use fear messaging to stifle debate, instead of encouraging discussion. So in a sentence, how would he have handled the pandemic differently? ‘I would just have had a more grown-up conversation with the country.’



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,988 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    No doubt the response was over the top here and in many parts of the world.

    The hysteria was beyond belief. Shutting construction down for a second time was a laugh. I notice none of the do gooders admitting that was a mistake.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,373 ✭✭✭celt262




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,467 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



  • Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭slystallone


    In Portugal, requirement to wear masks in public transport and on the plane there?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,467 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    No clue. I had no idea what your question was about as you hadn't quoted anyone.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,390 ✭✭✭VG31




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,193 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Thats crazy!

    Is it by any chance an Educate together school ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,467 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Turns out ot was a letter sent in error! They sent out the one from the previous year!

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,345 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Not sure if anybody else has notice but I was feeling iffy earlier this week so said I'd see what the official guidance on testing currently is.

    As I am under 55 and self-proclaimed to be healthy it seems that the official advice is I shouldn't get tested at all and self isolate until I am 48 hours after symptoms are mostly or fully gone or wear a mask if I have to be around other people. That's a huge relaxation since the time that we were legally forced to isolate for 7 or 10 days following a positive test

    That "mostly or fully part" really suggests we should stop caring no?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,266 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,266 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭j2


    Wonder if there would be much support for an autumn lockdown in the coming weeks



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    Yeah loads I’d say. We need to go harder and longer than we did before starting with a 2 metre from home travel ban. It’s the only way….



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    What a stupid fckking question.

    Think before you type.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,442 ✭✭✭bad2thebone


    The risk of lockdown outweighed the benefits.

    A lot of people lost their mind's, livelyhoods and missed important medical appointments due to the lockdowns.

    Instead of letting 99.98% of people get on with it and suggest that the vulnerable be more careful they decided to lock down 100% to protect the small percentage of vulnerable people.

    Why didn't they give people an option of being more careful ?

    From early on it was suggested that it wasn't going to be harmful to the majority.

    It was a huge cock up of a risk benefit calculation.

    The nursing home scandal will be investigated. The lies on the media won't be forgotten.

    Get two shots and you'll be protected, but yet most of the unvaccinated had lesser symptoms than the vaccinated. That was quashed.

    Their interpretation of unvaccinated was anyone who hadn't the second or a booster.

    Note how they were economical with the truth, in a way they were right but in another they were pinning the blame on people who weren't vaccinated. Absolutely shocking on the media suggesting division amoungst people.

    They didn't encourage good will towards the unvaccinated, quite the opposite actually.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,656 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Good and right result, but the cynic in me says there was a backlash from parents behind the scenes. How do you "accidentally" issue a letter from a year ago?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,467 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Ride, PJ Harvey, Pixies, Public Service Broadcasting, Therapy?, IDLES(x2)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 272 ✭✭j2




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