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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    It's not that bad, but fails to mention stuff like the phoenix park tunnel branch is limited service, something a map like this definitely needs.

    Slightly OT: hopefully a similar network map is produced for the bus system once Bus Connects is fully implemented!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,548 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    PPT and Docklands definitely should have markers for being limited service - Docklands is much more limited than PPT.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭MICKEYG


    Would love if they could give lines Numbers and Letters.

    Maybe G for Green Line, R for red line - so G1 if heading to Broombridge, G2 if Parnell, G3 if Sandyford and G4 if Brides Glen (or something similar)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,548 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Not going to happen, primarily due to BusConnects using that format



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,107 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    other than the existing Dart and Luas, they're all relatively limited service lines - they're certainly not high-frequency, turn-up-and-go type services.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Maybe use numbers first and letters second for rail/tram services?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I think we can stick with colours for all rail. It's not like we're in any danger of running out of them any time soon ;-)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Thats a fair attempt alright and the development of dart + will probably tidy it up a but more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭D.L.R.


    Ireland not setting the transit map world alight, that's for sure.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer



    The rail map above does clearly state “tram” for the LUAS lines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,832 ✭✭✭crushproof


    Is there any reason why it can't all just be known as the DART? Rather than having multiple brand names? Always bugged me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭Ronald Binge Redux


    It’s a tribute to just how many times Official Ireland has reinvented the (broken) wheel…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭N64


    Taking this project is dead as a dodo now that the cost of living crisis is happening? Any general timeline that the government and relevant parties published back in July?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,270 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Official timetable is an RO submission by the end of September. This is now highly unlikely.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,492 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Cue endless "They're spendin' billins up in Dublin when Rural Ireland™ is dyin'" whinging in the Dail. Government to kick for touch until next election, then SF will say it'd be nice but we have eleventy trillion euro of election promises to fund.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,115 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Aside from NIMBYs in the Dublin area, Metrolink has been generally well received by the public.

    Theres also some cranks complaining about no rail in Donegal or no Luas in Galway but these people are always complaining - hardly representative of the public at large. If ML gets canned it will be due to Dept of Finance putting the brakes on, not due to public opinion or protests



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,270 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I can't see how getting Metrolink started is anything but good news for the incumbent government.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    At some point we'll have to acknowledge the 50% cut in transport emission isn't going to come from just switching our vehicles to EVs, and any government that's shut down the Metrolink project is going to have to explain just what, exactly, is their plan to hit that target.

    I'd say that this project is pretty safe, at least in my opinion.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,529 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Railway Order application to go in on the 30th of September or there abouts. Documents to be made available to the public in advance of the application going in. Great news.

    Official notices to be published tomorrow say full details of the application for the mainly underground rail line in Dublin will be made public online from September 29.


    The documents will then be submitted directly to An Bord Pleanála (ABP) September 30 or soon after.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Did the Independent really post a pic of Metro North? There will be no metrolink station on Westmoreland St



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Nothing they do shocks me now. Photo seems to show a station called ".... Bridge" which I think was the old Metro North O'Connell Bridge stop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,492 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato




  • Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭snowstorm445


    Can't imagine the upcoming economic downturn bodes well for a project on the scale of Metrolink unfortunately. Didn't Metro North get planning permission back in the day only to be postponed indefinitely after the crash (by Leo no less)?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,636 ✭✭✭prunudo


    The worst thing we do as a nation is roll back on infrastructure and housing during any future potential down turn. We are still feeling the consequences of doing that the last time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭bennyineire


    Let me see this magic crystal ball you have and show me this "upcoming recession" you seem certain of and how it will be comparable to 2008 even though we as a country will have a projected surplus of €6 billion this year



  • Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭snowstorm445


    I'm not trying to scaremonger, but the vast majority of analysts agree that some sort of recession is on the way for Europe later in the year/into next year. And I never said it would be an exact repeat of 2008 either. I'm just making the point that projects like these unfortunately always seem to be destined for the chopping block in those situations.

    If it still gets the go ahead, fantastic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,489 ✭✭✭bennyineire


    Near cert that it will IMHO, it'll actually be a money spinner in around about way for the government due to employment and tax generated from the project



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    That's how we, and economists, and anyone rational, would see it, but it's often not how the government see it. I do think the need to meet climate goals will push it over the line though (not that you should need that).

    Post edited by spacetweek on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,270 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Ireland had no access to debt markets in 08, even in a general upcoming recession there is no sign that that will be an issue. If anything, a recession would have the possibility of making it cheaper.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,319 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I agree, the Greens presence in government is crucial to the public transport policies in the pipeline. You worry if they lose seats in 2025 and drop out of government that other parties will believe public transport is not a vote-winner and will drop projects at that time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,107 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    the greens are toast at the next GE, and even if they do hold onto a few seats I can't see them going in with the inevitable SF-led next govt.

    My concern is that SF will be throwing money around and Metrolink is unlikely to be a priority for them - it's a FF/FG project that won't even be open until after the following general election. If they need to find some cash for their budget priorities, they'll drop Metrolink like a stone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I don't see that in practice. The GP haven't done much of anything for PT. All current projects predate their stint in government



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,864 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The problem with the Greens is that their leader is more interested in the perfect Green projects and priorities than the practical good-enough policies. Delays could be fatal for many of these projects.

    He should be pushing for Metrolink, the M20, and the Cork-LJ-Limerick railway project. All three are needed now, and there is no sign of a single shovel even being on order to be ready to go into action. He needs the Tunnel Boring to be commenced prior to the next GE, or the whole project could be in jeopardy.

    As we all know, the perfect is the enemy of the good.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    "I'm not trying to scaremonger, but the vast majority of analysts agree that some sort of recession is on the way for Europe later in the year/into next year."

    Well first of all, even if there is a recession in some European countries or even across the EU, it doesn't necessarily mean there will be one in Ireland. In 2008 when we were in deep recession, there was actually no recession in Poland and other Eastern European countries. That isn't to say we will or won't be hit by a recession, but it is far from a guarantee.

    Second, recession isn't something to be feared, it is a normal part of a healthy economy and can even be an opportunity for a country to develop.

    What happened in 2008 wasn't a normal recession, it was almost a complete collapse of our economy. It was Great Depression level stuff. A normal recession isn't that dire and normally doesn't require the aggressive cut backs on infrastructure spending that we saw in 2008.

    On the contrary, many more mature economies actually increase public infrastructure spending during recessions, as it can help keep the economy going, employs people who might have been working in the private sector and usually means projects can be delivered cheaper, so more bang for your buck and the new infrastructure can help as the economy comes out of recession. Check out the concept of counter cyclical economic policy.

    Recessions happen roughly every 10 years or so. Major infrastructure projects like Metro's often take more then 10 years. If every country cancelled Metro projects every time there was a recession, there would be no Metro's in the world!



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    You would think that public transport projects are predicated on having Greens in government, but that hasn't been the case. I'm very disappointed with Eamon Ryan's lackadaisical attitude to the endless delays that DART/Metrolink/Luas/BusConnects have been experiencing. He is very tolerant of the extremely long lead in times (e.g. if Metrolink, a rehash of an old project, starts in 2025 it will have taken 10 years to get from project commencement to construction. This is crazy stuff) and should be trying to change laws to speed up infrastructure development.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Ryan was more interested in proposing fantasy/vapourware Metro South projects than he was driving this project on.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Not a massive fan of him, but I think Ryan is getting a bad rap on here. To be honest, I just don't see what he could have done to push this project, or any other major PT project through faster.

    The problems facing our planning and legal systems are not something that can be fixed easily, and the steps that most of us on here would support don't actually have widespread support.

    While he made some Metrolink clangers before he was minister, he's been solidly supporting it since taking on the role, even resisting calls for it to be altered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I'd say they're more/less neutral on PT. The GP haven't improved the situation, their leader has however damaged metrolink with all his metro South pontificating.

    It's energy where the gp have done real damage to our national interests. Exploration for new gas reserves is now banned in Irish territory. Natural gas was Ireland's only hope of transitioning to a low carbon economy, fueled by electricity generated by our winning combination of wind and natural gas. The policy change meant we have to import gas, ultimately from Russia, which is now not an option for political reasons. Even before the Ukraine thing kicked off, technical advice was that there is no existing technology that can replace natural gas in our energy mix but still they ploughed on.



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  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,100 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    We don't get any gas from Russia. It all comes from either Corrib or the UK. However, I agree. I don't think banning oil and gas exploration is a good idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭gjim


    Was banning oil and gas exploration anything more than optics? I don't know the answer to be honest.

    I mean we've been hearing about "potential" Irish oil/gas resources for half a century but I was under the impression that Ireland wasn't exactly beset by eager oil/gas exploration companies wanting to be allowed to drill in Irish waters? There's stuff there but a lot of it isn't economic to extract?

    I do believe that opposing the development of an LNG terminal was/is misguided (and argued here for this long before the current crisis).

    Ryan hasn't been stellar but he's been better than what I was expecting given his support for the NIMBY "rethink metro" group before his ministerial position. My priorities would be different if I were in his position but at least there are a bunch of big PT projects either underway or about to start. To be honest, has any other transport minister done better for PT? Remember how useless Ross was. There's some reason for a little optimism I feel.

    My biggest worry is a complete change of government after the next election. We know that such changes are often a death sentence for big infrastructure projects with "rethinks" or "reconsidering the options", "commission reports", etc. I particularly fear that hard-left influences or SF are part of the next government and a fancy shiny metro system would be seen as a bourgeois luxury (we're spending billions on it while there are people sleeping in the streets, joe).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The UK gas is going to ultimately be coming from Russia though. In any case, an absolutely ludicrous, self harming, decision that has the potential to cause havoc on Irelands economy, society and infrastructure spending.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,986 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    No, sorry, but that is terribly ill informed!

    The gas we import from the UK comes from the UK itself, Norway and a relatively small amount from LNG.

    In 2021 the UK imported only 4% of it's Gas from Russia. As of June 2022, they now import 0% of Russian gas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Opening this thread for the first time in ages, looking for Metrolink news....immediately closing the thread again...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Come back in 1.5 years, by that time a Railway order should be in place, a tenderer should be selected by then, so the only thing left will be to cancel or start building.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    In 1.5 years it'll only be halfway to construction start - it's not due to start until 2025 which is 3 years away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭MyLove4Satan


    Perhaps the most delusional post on this thread. A deep global recession is going to get Dublin a metro? I was always amazed by the Waiting for Godot mentality on this forum regarding 'the metro will come!!!' while flying in the face of reality, but jesus wept this post takes the ultimate Fig Roll in terms of this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    The post says nothing about a deep global recession. Recessions happen every 10years or so. Given the timeline of large infrastructure projects, we can't assume every 10 years we abandon all plans and start again.

    Ireland was badly burned in 2008 and it has scarred us. But it is highly unlikely to be such a deep recession again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,492 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The problem in 2008 was due to the geniuses in charge, at the same time as a global economic crisis (not their fault) we had a sovereign debt crisis (absolutely their fault) a private sector debt crisis (absolutely their fault) and a household debt crisis (absolutely their fault) all at once.

    Yet people still vote FF.... 🤯

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,541 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    The one big thing in this upcoming recession across the globe is that it is all focused on one thing which is the supply of energy. It is the one big thing right now that is being used as weapon of war in Eastern Europe.

    When we talk about electricity consumption for all of these big PT infrastructure projects; we are going to have to use more electricity consumption from having newer things provided to us like Metrolink, DART+, BusConnects, the gradual rollout of Electric Vehicles as well as the upcoming expansion of the Luas to Finglas over the next 10 to 20 years.

    And all that has to come in while we as a country have to sort out the current mess that is in the news right now with the issues from the data centres that are overusing our electricity consumption on the national grid.

    When Metrolink is now the big talking point within Government circles at the moment. I do feel that it could be a double edged sword later on when it goes on to get the railway order submitted to ABP.

    We do know that as of now; Eirgrid do have a lead in time of 10 years to make serious attempts in trying to upgrade the national grid before Metrolink in theory becomes shovel ready.

    However is having a lead in of 10 years to upgrade the national grid actually enough time to officially allow Metrolink become shovel ready for TII/NTA to build it according to the planning authorities?

    For one thing I would class Metrolink as a big new piece of infrastructure that is being built on CPO'ed sources of land that may or may not have been used for other things before.

    When Metrolink is built; you would then have to use a lot of electricity to provide this new infrastructure like powering up the stations, the OHLE, the signalling and automation for the trains, the Metrolink depot along with the new underground Metrolink tunnel as well. A big proportion of that electricity being used will be classed as newer sources of consumption being added onto the grid.

    Now within the context of a cost of living crisis; how much electricity consumption could a new project like Metrolink could add to the grid as a ballpark figure if it was to be built within the 2030's.



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