Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

reslfj · 07-08-2022 1:51pm

They have not provided the required infrastructure to examine the passports of those travelling to France through Dover.

Note: Children has - iirc since 2011/12 - needed their own passport and can't be written into the parents passport. Most countries in EU/Europe(west of Russia) have issued biometric and machine readable passports for more than 10 years now - so all valid passports should be biometric.

Within the EU, where EU citizens' ID cards can be used for travel, I understand, biometric has not been required for new ID cards before 2021. This is of course not a problem for UK citizens, who must use a passport.

Cars going on holiday have, at least where I am, on average more passengers e.g. two parents plus some kids than most other cars crossing a border. As all 4-5 passports has to be checked and stamped the servicing time for each holiday-car will be much longer than for a car with just a single driver.

A fundamental figure in queuing theory is the 'average arrival rate' / 'average service rate' (here both e.g. cars/seconds or cars/minute). If this figure is smaller but close to one, a queue will build. When this figure is one or above the queue will grow and grow and grow fast.

Lars 😀

Arrival rate = cars arriving on the road to the end of the queue (or if no queue to the the service booth) per unit of time.

Service rate = cars serviced at the service booths per unit of time.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-08-2022 1:53pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/07/truss-sunak-contest-leaves-brussels-pessimistic-about-relations-with-uk-brexit-eu

How about, instead of all these leaks about how scared the EU are, they actually do something?

Still waiting while the Brits rip up their agreements.

If we were Germany or France etc etc...

We will continue being bullied by our neighbour. No end in sight.

breezy1985 · 07-08-2022 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440652#Comment_119440652

Where does it say scared. I see a lot of pessimistic and disappointed but I don't get a scared narrative.

Do you have a set time for when you disappear and come back with your EU bullied/scared/useless/sell out Irexiter nonsense or is it random?

peter kern · 07-08-2022 3:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440534#Comment_119440534

under eu treaty rights this south african would have had a residency card of portugal being married to the eu citizen , most likely. this we can not read in the article so you are speculating while one would assume the guardian fact checked.

peter kern · 07-08-2022 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440114#Comment_119440114

https://visitukraine.today/blog/247/portugal-rules-of-entry-and-stay-for-refugees-from-ukraine

they can send out goodwill residency cards in 2 weeks but cant follow the legislation ....

you suggesting that all civil servants issuing residency cards in portugal are fireman is brexiter logic at its finest.

think about it .

Sam Russell · 07-08-2022 3:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119441259#Comment_119441259

I doubt that the question of residency cards for British immigrants is high on the to-do list for the Portuguese Gov. They have temporary ones issued, so what is the rush? [I am not a Brexiter or Brexiteer, or a supporter of Brexit in any way.]

A few complaints from unidentified people with unknown history - were they actually entitled to residency, or perhaps were the living in the black economy or did not apply in time? There are always edge cases that are exploited by the British press. Some British immigrants say they have had no problems at all.

Who to believe?

Donald Trump · 07-08-2022 4:16pm

Economic outlook not too good over in the UK. Not that it's perfect here but they appear to be a lot worse over there.

Obviously though it's only coincidence to be happening along with with Brexit and would be worse if they hadn't "taken back control"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3i-4m7xYfo

Grassey · 07-08-2022 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440652#Comment_119440652

Why would you do anything when your opposite is currently content to punch themselves in the face over and over?

Strazdas · 07-08-2022 4:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119441418#Comment_119441418

Irish economy in better shape overall - still a member of the EU Single Market and we don't have the Tory kleptocrats and media running the country.

There's still quite high inflation and a cost of living crisis, but nowhere near as bad as it appears cross channel.

breezy1985 · 07-08-2022 5:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119441515#Comment_119441515

We also have a much less aggressive attitude to Scrooge's surplus population.

The UK is a much more cold and divided society when it comes to rich and poor.

peter kern · 07-08-2022 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119441317#Comment_119441317

do you have a link that proves that there is no issue ...

this is how we usually deal with people here who make clains they cant back up .

btw a temporary document and QR code has been issued

this is not a temporary card.

i can tell you from experience that this will cause a lot of hassle at passport control if you dont have a card but documents and qr codes , and even with the card often it is a hassle . so in this case i can tell you who to believe . and its the people that have to use documents and qr codes .

Strazdas · 07-08-2022 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119441594#Comment_119441594

Yes, there have been some charts in recent weeks showing how the UK gap between rich and poor is huge and also how a considerable section of the population are living in absolute poverty. Right wing control of the media mostly suppresses all of this info, otherwise you'd imagine they'd nearly be rioting on the streets by this stage (they even have the population convinced that left wing and centre ground politics and parties pose a huge 'threat' to Britain).

breezy1985 · 07-08-2022 5:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119441656#Comment_119441656

It's not just the monetary gap it's the mental and political gap. It might not seem like it but the rich and poor are closer and more understanding of the symbiotic nature of society than in the UK.

Strazdas · 07-08-2022 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119441719#Comment_119441719

First past the post system and the UK media landscape has totally led to the division in GB. The system worked well enough when you had decent and respectable enough people running things, but now that the worst people in Britain are controlling the government and the media, we're seeing huge divisions and many millions being left behind.

Sam Russell · 08-08-2022 10:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119441626#Comment_119441626

According to the Portuguese Gov.

The Portuguese immigration and borders service SEF said in a statement:

“The current residence documents of British nationals living in Portugal continue to be accepted, even after the end of the transition period (31 December 2020), and until the new residence card is issued.

The exchange of the current residence document (either an EU registration certificate issued by the town hall, or an EU permanent residence certificate issued by SEF) was carried out through the Brexit portal (brexit.sef.pt), which allowed British nationals to apply online to exchange the document.

Until then, the certificate with the QR code, that can be downloaded from the portal, continues to be an official residency document for those under the withdrawal agreement. It is valid until the new card is issued. Furthermore, valid EU residency documents continue to be accepted for travel purposes, until the new card is issued.”

So what is the issue? A few disgruntled tourists have a bit of bother with a German border guard? A few British residents find access to services difficult? Do they speak Portuguese? Some British residents say they have no problems - one even had a heart operation without issue.

So who do you believe? All silly season nonsense.

peter kern · 08-08-2022 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119443870#Comment_119443870

its very simple if you dont have a card you will get loads of problems at passport control. fact

the issue is not the temporary part the issue is no card which they can send out within 2 weeks as i have shown you.

a document is not a card so i know from experience here this is trouble and of course it depends who looks at it but your are then at the mercy of the controller who often cant be bothered to read up legislation . thats why some have issues some not .

and again they are not tourists they are people that used their right of free movement to settle in portugal while the uk was a member of eu they are residents. and yes they paid tax as otherwise they would not have this card .

in this case i know exactly who i believe. for the health issue part i have no idea .

read the article again the eu commission does not say portugal is doing it right, it says portugal assures us they are doing it right , and we monitor the situation. thats diplomatic speak there is an issue and we are working on it . otherwise they would say portugal is doing everything by the books.

anyway this is not really the issue here its clear that if there is a negative brexit article we all applaud it , if there is an critical article about eu or a country we come up with excuses why eu countries should not do their job . that is not really evidence based

so so far your arguments have been you have gone from saying portugal has no time becasue of fires . making good on a issue , should not be a high priority then you say its silly season

and it is evident you have really no knowledge abut the issue , but keep repeating your mantra there is no issue . i guess you hate experts too lol and of course iam not an expert in this matter but i understand the issues.

you are biased and its not the aim of the brexit thread to be biased it should be evidence based .

you use evidence that you dont understand , which is similar to the people that believed the 350 milion a week for the nhs

as they did not know better.

so maybe be a bit more humble would help unless you are sure you understand what you are talking about .

to add we agree the uk does not do its part in goo faith, but does that mean you agree we in the eu should also not act in good faith.

if you agree on that than you are a hypocrite.

ambro25 · 08-08-2022 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444385#Comment_119444385

Brits are now third country nationals, and residency rights for those and their management are a national competence and prerogative, not a European one.

So yes, querying member states, receiving their replies (‘assurances’) and ‘monitoring the situation’ is all that the EU, as a regulatory body and structure, can do.

So Portugal struggles to send a card to some Brits at the height of summer and mass vacation-taking by civil servants?

Well, should we have a contrasting chat about the UK’s not sending any cards or other hardcopy certificates whatsoever to EU27 residents with settled or pre-settled status since day one, and the hundreds or thousands of them who’ve been denied boarding in UK-bound planes and trains etc. exactly due to this, since January 2021?

If vacationing or emigrated Brits didn’t want hassle at EU borders, they’ve had plenty of occasions since 24 June 2016 to do something about it - and their successive governments significantly more occasions through EU offers in negotiations (all turned down by said UK governments through ideology). At ballot boxes for the very many, at national offices under regularisation programs for the million-or-so others.

I should know, my Mrs is a Brit, had to go through the whole WA-rights securitisation locally, and gets asked her Lux residency card at borders now.

There’s nowt to be ‘humble’ about. There’s the law, applicable to every one according to their circumstances; due process under that law; and lastly Murphy’s Law, according to which ignoring problems and/or doing everything in an emergency always results in worse problems.

retalivity · 08-08-2022 12:24pm

The new Health Chief says he wants/needs to hire 100,000 workers from overseas to fill staffing shortages, as part of this, they are dropping the language requirement. All those foreigners, that were coming over here taking our jobs, etc.... turns out that English people can't/won't do the work anyway, taking back control indeed.

He wants the drive – which could see thousands more healthcare workers arrive in Britain over the coming months – to focus in particular on bolstering the social care sector.

Mr Barclay said healthcare recruitment could be expanded by hiring from countries that produce more nurses than they need, including India, Sri Lanka and the Philippines.

He added that social care could also benefit from bringing in foreign workers who have nursing qualifications but not a high enough standard of English for front line NHS work.

The language requirement to work in nursing homes, set independently of the Government by medical bodies, is lower than for employment in hospitals.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/08/07/steve-barclay-will-sprint-avoid-nhs-winter-crisis/

tanko · 08-08-2022 12:26pm

Brexiteers moaning about the Withdrawl agreement and Protocol not being implemented and accusing others of being hypocrites, oh the irony, you couldn’t make this stuff up.

peter kern · 08-08-2022 12:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444478#Comment_119444478

again the portugiese government does not issue those cards that your wife has , they give a paper document or qr code .... and the issue is not summer vacation the issue exists since feb 2020 .

and of course its sh.te that the uk does the same nonsense .

but at this stage we know they are clowns , but i would prefer the eu or the eu country does its part proper as i dont want us to end up like the uk .

ancapailldorcha · 08-08-2022 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444512#Comment_119444512

You haven't provided any evidence and now you're playing the tired old "both sides" card. If the British were concerned about losing free movement, they had ample opportunity to either vote remain or for a pro-Brexit Labour party which openly committed to ending free movement but which almost certainly have negotiated some sort of deal to preserve holiday travel.

I've no sympathy for anyone from the UK experiencing visa issues in the EU. It's what they voted repeatedly for.

peter kern · 08-08-2022 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119444637#Comment_119444637

the guardian article has all the issues , also the document sam russel showed has all the info, there is no cards and only paper.

this has nothing to do with the uk they have made this agreement with the eu . a country that is part of the eu does not follow the agreement. legal residents in portugal that have the right to be there are not treated according to their rights .

luxenburg and many other counrties have send out those cards, portugal hasnt ,and this is a fact, that you can easily verify again if you dont belive the 2 sources . and the Portuguese gov acknowledges that . portugal would like you to believe there is no issue having no residency card .so why do people in most other countries have them .... and why does the eu monitor it ...

I've no sympathy for anyone from the UK experiencing visa issues in the EU. It's what they voted repeatedly for.

what a nonsense almost half the people voted against it it is entirely possible that those people where not even allowed to vote on brexit as they might have been living too long abroad to be allowed to vote . i cant rember how many brits that exercised their right of free movement in eu to take up residency and paying tax in that country were not allowed to vote but the number was not insignificant.

again they are not legal issues ,portugal just dosnt issue them their card which creates the problem and again they can send it out in 2 weeks if they want to .

can i tell you one more time , those people have a legal right to have a residency card as they are residents of portugal. and they dont have it. its as simple as that . you can come up with all shenanigans but the fact remains those people have the same right to be in portugal as you have to in the uk .

and you really dont seem to grasp the issue either , this has nothing to do with what type of brexit deal labour vs tory brexit deal. this is a right concerning free movement before brexit ,and guarantees them to keep up residency in their chosen country .

ancapailldorcha · 08-08-2022 3:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445089#Comment_119445089

As Sideshow Bob once said, there's no Nobel Prize for attempted Chemistry. Almost half isn't half. Brexit means Brexit.

The Portuguese government hasn't spewed malevolent nonsense about the UK, it's having real technical issues and is permitting expired cards to be used while the new ones are prepared. It's rich of the UK government to be outraged about this while deporting asylum seekers to Rwanda for no discernible reason beyond cruelty. It openly described EU migrants as bargaining chips back in 2017. It has no authority to be pontificating to anyone.

As for my right to live here, it's because I'm an Irish citizen. That has nothing to do with this situation. The Portuguese government decided to allow them to live here. I have a legal right to be here. There's a difference.

murphaph · 08-08-2022 3:38pm

Eventually the Commission might start legal proceedings against Portugal, but the Commission was slow enough to start them against the UK over the NIP ;-)

ambro25 · 08-08-2022 3:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445089#Comment_119445089

Unless I am mistaken, ancapailldorcha’s right to work and reside in the UK, as an Irish citizen, does not derive from the Withdrawal Agreement, unlike the other EU26 nationals. This is what makes the Irish passport so uniquely valuable amongst other EU27 passports post-Brexit.

For the rest of it, by all means continue to be outraged all you want at EU27 member states each implementing brand new legislation at varying rates of celerity and efficiency: all had enacted that new legislation for Brits as a result of Brexit in record-quick time (and it was brand new immigration legislation, because modifying existing legislation applicable to 3rd party nationals according to the WA as finalised at the 11th hour (for a change))…

…Won’t make a blind bit of difference, no more than 5 years worth of tireless campaigning by the 3Millions, BritsIntheEU, InLimbo project and so many more, all fighting to prevent exactly these outcomes on both sides (UK/EU27), did.

I take it that you have heard of these, and have been as strong with your opinion on the topic back then and since, rather than opportunistically ride this Portuguese snail, right?

Besides, there’s no reason to expect that quintessentially British sense of entitlement to change for the more realistic, just because a Brit happens to be a Remainer or a reformed Brexiter 😏

peter kern · 08-08-2022 3:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445469#Comment_119445469

it does not have this issue , as of march 2022 it could issue those cards and have them posted within 2 weeks to ukranian arrivals .

its not that the portiguese government allowed them to live there its their right to live there.

the eu has protected those rights

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/brexit-residence-rights/index_en.htm

so those uk people have the right to live there as they were residents in portugal before 2020 .

ancapailldorcha · 08-08-2022 3:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445607#Comment_119445607

That's only for already settled people. Anyone coming to Portugal after that does so at the Portuguese government's discretion.

My right to live, work and vote in the UK comes from the Common Travel Area. I can't make it any clearer that this is not the same as the residence agreement for UK and EU citizens that the two bodies struck to settle the issue of people living in each other's jurisdictions.

peter kern · 08-08-2022 4:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445617#Comment_119445617

the article specifically talks about people that had a residence card before brexit ...

is it that hard to read this article ...

ambro25 · 08-08-2022 7:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445607#Comment_119445607

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445746#Comment_119445746

Is Portugal kicking these Brits out? No. So how is their right to continue living and working in Portugal, acquired under the WA as a result of EU-UK negotiations, infringed?

ancapailldorcha · 08-08-2022 7:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119445746#Comment_119445746

If you're going to be arrogant, please punctuate at the very least.

You've yet to show how this is down to malevolence on the part of Portugal's government.

Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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