Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

Sam Russell

I doubt the EEA or EFTA would allow them in because they have already had several Cod Wars with Iceland - would they want another one?

They are too big an economy (at the present time - but they are working on that aspect) for the other members. Also there is no fit with their economy and those of the other members of EFTA.

Larbre34

I don't for a minute think that new agitation to 'rejoin' will actually result in rejoining - not for at least a decade anyway.

What it will do is provide a focus for discontent as you all have described, a focus for Scottish independence, a focus for the majority in the 6 Counties saying 'hands off our protocol, because - lets face it - its the only thing insulating the North from the worst of whats coming down the tracks to GB.

Of course theres also the chance that protests to rejoin could easily be hijacked by extremists on the left or attacked by extremists on the right and become a battle royal to kick off mass civil unrest, something like Toxteth or the Tottenham riots of previous generations.

Hotblack Desiato

Take policing for instance. Policing here is done by the consent of the community, not to it. It's rooted in the Peel reforms of the mid-nineteenth century.

Not too sure about that. The Met in particular have had a terrible reputation for decades.

Seth Brundle

More Brexit losses for British immigrants in the EU...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/06/britons-portugal-post-brexit-id-cards

I wonder if anyone in Westminster sees the hypocrisy of calling for Portugal to fully implement the withdrawal agreement.

Larbre34

€4,000 for a Brit to have a broken limb fixed up, free under the EU....yikes

Thats a hell of a Brexit consequence.

And yes I understand they are supposed to have that covered by their Portuguese residency under the Withdrawal agreement. But, imagine how many Brits, who are not residents, are heading off to the Costa del Gammon this summer and not bothering their ass with travel insurance, because they never needed it before and little Churchill breaks his arm at the Funpark. The local clinics will have the paw out for a 2k deposit before they even look at him.

And yes, the residency issue may be sorted out for that cohort ultimately, but you have to imagine, that if the new UK PM goes beyond the brink with the EU over the NI protocol, it could jeopardise the residency protections for hundreds of thousands of Brits living across the Continent.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119436281#Comment_119436281

"Pro-remain"?

There is no such thing as pro-remain. The referendum was years ago. The UK left the EU.

Time to move on.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119438470#Comment_119438470

Yeah at this point they are not getting back in even if they wanted to. Guess the protest should be better described as pro making sensible international deals with close neighbours. Doesn't skip off the tongue I will be the first to admit.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119436658#Comment_119436658

I recall googling some time ago and finding that you can't be cut off here for non-payment

Pre pay meters will cut you off automatically, so a lot of people on the bottom rung have no choice if they want to continue to get things like gas, electricity and water. Might be a good thing to remind then who sold off the utilities that are now owned by Johnny Foreigner. Also they still have to subsidise nuclear because that couldn't be sold off. And how many of the rail companies needed an injection of cash or needed the govt to step in to keep the service running ?

Which power company wanted a billion pounds recently from the government so it could buy one of the ones that went bust ?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119438515#Comment_119438515

They could campaign to implement Nigel Farage's Norway+ plan.

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439000#Comment_119439000

Norway+++++++

Norway means accepting the 4 freedoms, European courts, no rebate, Schengen, adoption of about half of EU laws etc. etc.

reslfj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119437112#Comment_119437112

The UK can't join the EEA without an OK from the EU. Such an EU accept doesn't have the needed unanimity vote in the EU council - by far.

We in the EU are now almost all de Gaulle.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439260#Comment_119439260

It's what Farage wanted and it's as close to joining as the UK will get in a long time.

Hotblack Desiato

Norway has "government by fax" for pretty much all EU-relevant issues, with the exception of fisheries.

On a somewhat lighter (?) note, anti-"Continent"/ Johnny Foreigner sentiment has been whipped up by Official Britain for a very long time...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-EeiAZfFB0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WteRPXpjBzc

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119437429#Comment_119437429

but you could also say how can we accuse the uk of breaking the protocol if portugal does not keep its word

so you accuse them of hypocrisy while being a hypocrite

its their right to be there written in the brexit treaty

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439260#Comment_119439260

It should be factored in that Norway and Iceland consider themselves 100% European and part of Europe.

English exceptionalism is so extreme that many of them even now deny that they were ever European or EU citizens - as if it's some outside entity (even their ghastly slogan "love Europe, hate the EU" alludes to this).

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439383#Comment_119439383

The article says that they're using a temporary system that has failed for some people. Is that the same scenario as the UK and the protocol?

Maybe those affected should contact the politicians that said absolutely nothing would change for British people abroad after Brexit. But I don't really think the British politicians care too much apart from making their grand statements through their local media.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119438544#Comment_119438544

I have wondered could all the Cost of Living Crises cause an uptick in noise towards re-nationalisation; seems like this is a scenario where nationalised services would be better placed to help the needy. Weren't some of the rail lines renationalised?

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439383#Comment_119439383

Seems that the temporary system, set up due to the last minute deal struck by the UK and their continued threats up to the point of signing that they were ready to walk away, isworking fine for some.

So it would seem that rather than some failure of the Portuguese to implement the agreement, rather a breakdown in knowledge across various areas.

One of the big examples was entry/exit to Germany. I would put that down to lack of knowledge by the border agent. Annoying for sure, but always a possibility given the changing status.

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439809#Comment_119439809

when was brexit again ... i would agree with you if this was 3 month after a last minute brexit deal but this is now 26 month ....

to add most european countries managed to set up systems for Ukrainians in less than 2 month so it can be done quicker than 26 month .

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439848#Comment_119439848

Don't rely on the kindness of strangers then. The agreement between the UK and Portugal allowed for what is in place. Clearly, it's what the UK wanted as they agreed to it. Hasn't worked out well, that was shortsightedness on the part of the negotiators.

It's not personal, it's just business.

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439866#Comment_119439866

this has nothing to do with kindness, this are legal rights for people that used the freedom of movement before brexit .

rock22

Perhaps another example of relying on the 'kindness of strangers' .

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/06/british-farmers-face-paying-for-border-checkpoints-in-eu-after-brexit-halts-exports

The problem is that no EU business is willing to invest in the infrastructure needed to check these animals. The farmers are saying the UK government should do more but of course it is up to EU businesses of they want to bother importing these animals.

Quote " Roper’s farm manager, Sam Maughan, said: “This was totally unexpected – we trusted the powers that be that there would be a short-term stop and it would all be back up and running. There just seems to be a lot of passing the buck. Surely the UK government have a responsibility to the UK businesses who are providing for this country.”

so they trusted the UK government.

Now of course they are being told it is up to the EU

Quote "A Defra spokesperson said: “It is the responsibility of EU countries and authorities to approve the designation and operation of these facilities."

Which is true, and those EU countries are not willing to spend money to set up the facilities.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439895#Comment_119439895

And those rights, as some examples in the article show, are still in place.

You say 26 months should be sufficient, and normally it would. But Covid changed everything. The UK, for example, haven't implemented border controls.

Staffing is a major issue everywhere, so they are probably trying to maintain things as best they can and have limited scope for new processes.

I'm not absolving them, they could have sorted this out fully, but that is the problem when you introduce additional bureaucracy into a process, particularly one you don't have any control over.

Sam Russell

Apart from Covid, Portugal have a few forest fires to put out. I think the British immigrants can wait a while till their temporary certs are reissued with more permanent ones.

The UK Gov have not implemented the NI protocol yet.

They have not provided the required infrastructure to examine the passports of those travelling to France through Dover. The examination formerly, pre-Brexit, just required seeing that the passport matched the individual - a visual check. Now it requires checking the passport is valid, has sufficient validity, the holder has not exceeded 90 days in the last 180 days, and if all is OK, then the passport will be stamped. Now how much longer does the second check take over the first? Clearly a lot more booths are required, but they have not been provide, despite a request by the Dover port for them to be provided.

Nor have they implemented the examination of imports into Britain as required by WTO. They have postponed them yet again, and no sign of those 50,000 customs officers to do those inspections.

So we have temporary certs in Portugal that should work and do for many. In Dover and in NI, we have wilful contravening of the WA by the British Gov.

So who is the hypocrite?

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439895#Comment_119439895

The kindness of strangers line is from the famous Tennessee Williams play, "A Streetcar named Desire." The protagonist, Blanche Du Buois, espouses this as her philosophy of life - no care, strangers will take care of you. This has been HMG's fallback strategy on all the sticky things they ignored prior to 'getting Brexit done.' Hence my reference - HMG should've negotiated this in more detail, with checkpoints and failsafes and whatever, but no... better to bang on about the EU being mean to them.

Don't rely on the kindness of strangers. It's business, not personal (from the Godfather.)

peter kern

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440015#Comment_119440015

and again most eu countries could sort out this in 2 month with ukraine people starting in march 2021 and gave them the appropriate card . and to be fair i dont think this had anything to do with deal or not this was one of the things that was clear way before 2020 , and we complained a lot here why the uk played so difficult with eu people that made the same applications in this thread and that european people are hold illegally up at immigration in uk .

if the uk f.ucks we are so quick to point out how bad it is and how horrible those right wing b brits etc etc and if the eu country and eu immigration f,ucks up we find 10 reasons to justify it ...

Capt'n Midnight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439678#Comment_119439678

AFAIK all of the railway lines that weren't being run by European state owned railway companies have been nationalised or heavily bailed out or lost their franchise. The successful franchises are using GB profits to subsidise the networks back home. The unsuccessful ones are costing the taxpayer billions.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/trains-uk-railways-renationalise-countries-operators-companies-a9058961.html

a significant proportion of the UK’s railways already are under state control, with Network Rail in charge of around 75 per cent of the industry, including the tracks, thousands of stations and signalling operations.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119440314#Comment_119440314

But yet Corbyn was some lunatic Trotskyite for wanting to renationalise them and Starmer has had to staunchly reject it in the press but the Tories who this 75% renationalisation happened under will never have to face a question over it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439919#Comment_119439919

I can't see EU farmers being too happy with their governments spending a ton of money to facilitate foreign imports. Seems the "master race" are discovering that taking back control of fish/cows/borders etc. works both ways.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119439919#Comment_119439919

Can these high-quality pedigree animals be imported into the ROI? Seems like that business is at an end in Europe, unless, basically, the UK exporters establish an 'outlet' in Europe like so many other UK businesses are doing now.

ArmaniJeanss

There has to be far more to that 'stopped at Frankfurt airport' story than the bare bones in the article.

I very much doubt that any German airport official would accuse a British passport holder of 'criminal breach of immigration laws', especially someone merely using the airport as a transfer hub which you generally don't need immigration rights for anyway. And suggesting they'd be arrested if they transitted back through Germany.

There are various clues though, they are referred to as a 'British-South-African couple' which suggests added complications, and the fact that they withheld their name is interesting, but makes it impossible to dig further.