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Chennai Olympiad



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess

    Joe...are you bonkers? lol

    Look at boxing...winning an olympic gold medal is the pinnicle of any boxers wildest dreams. GM norms for Conor will be easy to come by ...he has proven he is GM material by a huge margin....having a gold medal will open many doors for invitations to GM norm tournaments for young Conor!

    edit....and there are 2 rounds to go....I would suggest it would be prudent to rest Conor tomorrow and then if neccessary he could play in the last round!!

  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise

    From previous comments it looks like Conor is not going to be leading the board 2 standings.

    The tournament is not just about Conor and his team mates are playing for norms. Tarun is a win away against a GM from getting a norm and Conor should play if it means Tarun can play with white.

    Personally I do think it means more for the teams final standing over a rating performance prize. You cant compare boxing to chess. In chess the pinnacle is to become world champion and failing that is grandmaster. I dont know why you think Conor will stroll to GM he has played lots of GM norm tournaments recently and hasnt been successful. An 11 round norm can help significantly as there are tournaments where he can get a norm for 7 rounds - European Club Cup for example. A gold medal wont matter at all for tournament invitations.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb

    I suppose first thing is to wait for the updated medal standings and see how they look.

    I think it'll be tight for gold/silver, but there might be a 40-point gap to bronze. So by not playing, the Greek may overtake him for gold but he could have silver almost wrapped up. Even that's a hell of an achievement. Certainly you can't help but think that the norms will come in due course but such a great medal chance might never come again

  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭RooksPawn

    Trisha got her draw, avoiding the whitewash.

    In the Women's Olympiad, Polish board 3 Oliwia Kiolbasa has reached 9/9 after beating Praag's sister.

    Praag himself won a manic finish in which he was lost at one point, so India-2 drew with Azerbaijan. Uzbekistan will take the lead if they finish off Armenia which looks likely.

    I think it's a mental mistake to equate a board gold medal in the chess olympiad with a gold medal in the athletic Olympic Games. The latter means you have beaten all your rivals but in the chess olympiad it doesn't. Even if Conor finishes with 9.5/10 which would be a colossal result, it doesn't mean that he would have beaten Sarin and the others competing for the best Rp on board 2.

  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan

    Absolute rubbish, the GM norm is far more important, and this notion that "oh there will be lots more GM norms for him" is fanciful also, maybe there will or maybe there wont, nobody knows the future.

    1) get the norm sorted

    2) then worry about medals

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  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan

    oops my browser, had not updated the thread, watching the footy. See my reply above, you are the one is bonkers!

  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess

    The tournament is not just about Conor and his team mates are playing for norms. Tarun is a win away against a GM from getting a norm and Conor should play if it means Tarun can play with white.


    best to wait and see......Conor not playing will bump Tom and Tarun up a board and that might actually be needed to enable them to actually get GM opponents.

    I would rest Conor tomorrow...give Tom and Tarun a shot and see what unfolds tomorrow. There is always Tuesday...Conor only needs to turn up for the GM norm. All will be a lot clearer after tomorrows play

  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭RooksPawn

    I think joedryan's "rubbish" comment was addressed to cdeb not me?

    I too have read a lot of rubbish on this board today. Conor will surely want to play tomorrow and get his norm nailed down.

    Other decisions will depend on the opponent and colours and what Tarun requires, with Tom's outside norm chance also being taken into consideration. Either Alex or Mark will rest depending on what others need.

    The world has a funny way of punishing people who take things for granted. For example (far-fetched admittedly) if he rested tomorrow and then tested positive for Covid on Tuesday morning he would miss round 11 too and not get his norm.

  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan

    Surely the best would be to rest Alex on board 1, who is having a rough time anyway? Then all problems are solved and the rest get to go for their goals

    In any case it depends on the players, captain needs to talk to them and get a feel as to what they want.

  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise

    I think it depends on what colours Ireland have. Prioritise getting Tarun white.

    Ireland have had 4 Olympic medals but zero home grown Gms!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan

    It was addressed to corkcitychess, not to you!

    Of course Conor will play tomorrow, first things first.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb

    I do find it interesting that on balance (I think!) it's the stronger players who would rather the norm and the weaker players who'd rather the medal!

    I'm not sure final team placing comes into things too much - I don't know if anyone remembers where we finished in 2002, but Sam's medal was the big story from the event. Of course medal v a GM norm (maybe two if you count Tarun's remote chances) is a different story.

    We still won't have any home-grown GMs after this btw - I don't think either Conor or Tarun can count. Both were 2000+ when they first joined the ICU.

  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan

    The thing about medals in olympiads is that a lot of the time they are won by weaker teams because they have had weaker opposition, they just dont have the same respect as a GM norm, its not even a thing.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb

    Isn't it harder to win a medal against weaker opposition given it's based on performance?

    Currently (after round 8) the medal winners are Gukesh D (India 2), Conor Murphy (Ireland), David Howell (England), Jakhongir Vakhidon (Uzbekistan - the tournament leaders) and Volodymyr Onyshchuk (Ukraine). That's great company. All those teams in the top 14 seeds (except us)

    There's only two IMs in the top 20 in the Board 2 rankings (including Conor). That seems a serious feat.

  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan

    Its based on your score as far as I know

    Unless they have changed it and I am talking rubbish :)

    You are right! Players assigned to the same board number compete for individual medals, awarded according to their performance rating:

    Anyway I stand by the point its still a secondary issue.

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,029 ✭✭✭Ficheall

    Where are you seeing these, or do you have to calculate them? (Not that I disbelieve you - just curious :P )

  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise

    Tarun needs a win against any GM >2300 or 1.5/2 vs 2400 opposition including 1 GM. I wouldn't say his chances of a norm are remote.

    Tarun and Trisha both played in Kilkenny when they were much younger. Their first taste of Irish tournaments was Kilkenny in the James Mason(u1200) and watching Henry Li win!

  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess

    I think the team captain Carl could enquire if Conor already qualifies for a GM norm ? as he has already achieved it in theory as he only has to turn up to many times have we seen last round games with no moves played and results submitted? Certainly all avenues have to be explored no matter how weak the link! and the FIDE committee will be there awarding titles etc.

    no such thing as a stupid question...the answer will only be yes or no!

  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan

    no moves played and results submitted? I dont think I have ever seen that, and it would be in breach of FIDE rules and probably lead to serious issues for the organizer, no FIDE arbiter would allow that.

  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess

    the question can be asked if he qualifies for an 8 round GM norm .... it will be a yes or no...simple

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb

    The board 2 standings are updated so -

    Conor 2856

    Greece 2820

    Uzbekistan 2786

    India 2 2758

    It's actually hard to see him not get a medal of some description even if he plays one more game - so maybe now is the time to try be greedy and bring home norm and medal?

    2856 must be one of the greatest Irish performances at any tournament ever? I guess I look at that and think it's hard to see how he doesn't get norms in the future. He's not fallen over the line here; he's blitzed the norm requirements.

    Round 10 draw still pending

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb

    I think norm rules don't allow that for an Olympiad event?

  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess

    Ireland play Switzerland tomorrow so Alex or Conor have to be dropped to give Tarun a shot...

    just as I suspected....and said earlier...and even that is not a give me that Tarun will get a GM if Switzerland rest any of their top 3

    Looking like a long shot for Tarun now...always was on board 4

    I stand by my earlier board order comments that Alex would be getting just as many points on board 4 as board 1

    My team order would have been

    Conor, Tarun, Tom, Alex and Mark (although Tarun and Conor could also have been 1 & 2)

    had the team been Tarun, Conor, Tom, Alex and Mark...Conor might still be in a similar position and possibly Tarun and Tom in better norm positions.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb

    Yeah, there's no way you can get away with that in an Olympiad on live boards

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb

    A very weak Maldives side face the women tomorrow - top board 1233. 4-0 the target surely.

    In terms of titles - again, so much as players are targeting WCM/WFM, Alice needs 1.5/2 for WFM, a win for Lara will confirm WCM (she has earned it now but would lose it with 0/1 more) and 0/1 for Eibhia will confirm WCM if she doesn't play final round.

  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭RooksPawn

    Title regulations clearly state minimum 9 games unless the 9th game was missed due to a forfeit by the opponent, or in certain 8-game and 7-game events. So it's not even Carl worth asking that stupid question and making himself look like an idiot or a wannabe cheat.

    In the old days board prizes were probably on percentage score but it has been Rp lately I think.

    As noted above, Conor's lead over the Greek (who will play against Iceland tomorrow) is 36 points, over Yakkuboev it is 70 points and over Sarin it is 98 points.

    Of course the latter two will be playing in big matches both tomorrow and Tuesday against 2600+ opponents, and if they win they will greatly improve their Rp.

    Most relevant is that Yakkuboev's team (Uzbekistan) will play Sarin's team (India-2) and it is 99.9% certain they play each other. If they draw it will help Conor as then Yakkuboev's Rp would only slightly increase and Sarin's would slightly decrease. However if there was a winner that player would gain a lot while the other would fall out of the reckoning (except for bronze maybe).

    On the question of whether Tarun would get a GM opponent tomorrow if he plays board 3, I think it's not unknown for one team captain to ask another if they can facilitate a norm opportunity.

    More likely, though, this would happen before the last round. In theory Tarun doesn't actually need a GM opponent tomorrow as one in round 11 would do. Of course if Switzerland win we might not get a round 11 opponent who has enough GMs.

    So it might be worth Carl having a word with the Swiss captain - if he has a way of contacting him. Of course the reply might be that they would only do it if we rest Conor, and that probably wouldn't be an acceptable condition.

    The women's team badly need a morale-boosting win, that's clear.

  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan

    well yes, but its not even that its just unthinkable, no event would even entertain that, it would just lead to such a loss of reputation and probably lead to banning from FIDE of any future events.

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb

    "If they draw it will help Conor as then Yakkuboev's Rp would only slightly increase and Sarin's would slightly decrease."

    Surely both RPs would decrease as they'd both add a 2650 performance result to a 2750 performance average (give or take)

    Conor's RP went up 40 points with his win over 2550 today. The Greek's went up about 70 I think. So still some volatility there. Greece play Iceland, so a relatively low GM (probably 2540 if he takes white on 2) and a draw would be fantastic from Conor's point of view

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  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess

    @RooksPawn Title regulations clearly state minimum 9 games unless the 9th game was missed due to a forfeit by the opponent, or in certain 8-game and 7-game events. So it's not even Carl worth asking that stupid question and making himself look like an idiot or a wannabe cheat...

    it is a simple question...would Conor currently qualify for an 8 round norm? would be a yes or no answer....not...lock this guy up and throw away the key.

    no such thing as a stupid question..... you should have paid attention at school....or maybe you were one of those children that was afraid to raise his hand in class? 😀