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Chennai Olympiad

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  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭macelligott


    My understanding is Conor Murphy was born in England and both his parents are Irish. His parents come over when he plays in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall


    That's true I believe. He lived in England for a fair bit I believe? Has a strong accent! Lol.


    Egypt for the men next game and Italy for the women. Going to be a tough grind. Predictions?



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    After 6 rounds have both teams won 4 matches ever before? Loads to be positive about. Tough matches on Friday but I expect there will be at least 1 upset or 2 out 4 points for the teams combined.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Xenophobic /racist??? You obviously don't know the meaning of the words. I am all for Ireland taking in people of all different nationalities and colours as it greatly enhances the gene pool and adds diversity. I am only against people who aren't born in a country or who have no strong family ties to that country representing them in sporting events, hardly an opinion that is going to make me the next Grand marshall of the Ku Klux Klan now is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Was any of the Irish men's team actually born in Ireland?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall


    I think Tarun was! Lived in India for a substantial amount of time though I believe. Mark was as well, born in Dublin, although I think he father Wolfgang was German, I could be wrong though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭checknraise


    I think this was Conors first fide rated tournament in Ireland - https://ratings.fide.com/report.phtml?event=154080&t=0

    I guess he was about 17/18 and has improved a huge amount since then. He would have played a Kilkenny or Bunratty before the norm tournament.

    Everyone playing for Ireland is eligible and it shouldn't be a talking point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall


    Agreed. With Baburin having a well deserved rest, and with tomorrow being another rest day (hangover day from the Bermuda party tonight!)he is more than capable of coming back refreshed and ready to play his usual good chess



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Yeah I was just asking not disputing their eligibility.

    Apparently "citizenship, naturalization or residency in the country of that Federation" is required for the initial registration of a player, but there are no regulations requiring any of those to be maintained to stay registered with that federation. This surprised me, the requirements are even more lax than I'd imagined and could very easily be abused by anyone wishing to do so. In theory a group of Martians could move here for a few years get on the Irish team then go back to Mars and keep representing us at the expense of our homegrown talent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 479 ✭✭Joedryan


    Paco Vallejo has missed the last 2 rounds for Spain, not sure what is going on there, hope he is OK.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭RooksPawn


    Tarun was indeed born in Ireland; his mother told me. I'm not sure about Trisha.

    For the benefit of Milwall (many boards readers surely know this already), I will inform him that Wolfgang Heidenfeld was a German citizen at birth and in his youth but due to Nazi persecution of persons of the Jewish faith, he emigrated to South Africa. Then after WW2 he came to Europe again and settled in Ireland, eventually becoming an Irish citizen. Both Mark and his brother were born here but while they were of about primary school age, Wolfgang and his wife decided to retire to Germany. Mark (whom I first met when he was very young) has always maintained a strong connection with his native country.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall


    Wow I didn't know that at all. Very interesting to know. Learn something new everyday. Cheers @RooksPawn!



  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭zeitnot


    My understanding is that Mark, Tarun, and Trisha were indeed born in Ireland (Kilkenny in Trisha's case).

    See https://www.irlchess.com/players/ for biographical data and https://www.irlchess.com/players/players-references/ for supporting data.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    1e4, e5 2Nf3, c6 3Nxe5, c5 4 Qh5, Na6 5 Qxf7Mate was the board one women's game in the Olympiad between Togo and the Seychelles.

    I am now considering getting a sex change and emigrating to the Seychelles to represent them in future international team tournaments. After the sex change I plan on being a lesbian 😜



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 Millwall




  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭macelligott


    For the purposes of norms, the minimum rating (adjusted rating floor) for the opponents shall be as follows:

    Grandmaster norm

    2200

    International Master norm 2050

    Woman Grandmaster norm 2000

    Woman International Master 1850

    norm

    1.46c No more than one opponent shall have their rating raised to this adjusted rating floor. Where more than one opponent are below the floor, the rating of the lowest rated opponent shall be raised.

    Rating average of opponents

    1.47a This is the total of the opponents’ ratings divided by the number of opponents taking 1.46 into account.

    1.47b Rounding of the rating average is made to the nearest whole number. The fraction 0.5 is rounded upward.

    Performance Rating (Rp)

    In order to achieve a norm, a player must perform at a level at least of that shown below:

    Minimum level prior to rounding

    GM 2599.5

    IM 2449.5

    WGM 2399.5

    WIM 2249.5

    Minimum level after rounding

    2600

    2450

    2400

    2250

    rounds

    GM

    IM

    WGM

    WIM

    Different MO

    3 GM

    3 IM

    3 WGM

    3 WIM

    *Min. other feds.

    2

    2

    2

    2

    Rating floor for 1 player

    2200 for GM norm



  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭macelligott


    rating requirements for a GM norm after 9 rounds. Minimum average rating is 2380 (after rounding one opponent to 2200).




  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭macelligott


    After rounding one opponent up to 2200

    conor’s average opposition is 2425



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess


    If his dad is Irish and his mum is Irish , Conor is 100% Irish period.

    (2 of my children were born in England, 1 was born in the Philippines, all have my surname and all have Irish passports! I have 2 others born in Ireland and both parents are Irish)

    I do not envisage any becoming chess players...1 in the family is more than enough :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Neither of my parents were Irish so I find it ironic when some twat calls me xenophobic or racist. When I brought up the whole subject I did not do so specifically in relation to the Irish team but some people seem to miss the point so let me explain in simple terms. Every race/nationality has its own culture and individuality and the whole reason that international sport evolved was to pit these different characteristics against each other. We all know Ethiopians are great runners, Chinese are great table tennis players, Russians shine at chess, Canadians at ice hockey etc etc . One only has to watch a football match between Brazil and Germany to see the differences in personality and style, organisation, determination, flair and so on. My objection to "imports" playing for different countries is twofold, one the one hand it erases the contrasts that I mentioned above and on the other hand it deprives homegrown players the chance to represent their countries . Imagine a team of Chinese table tennis players winning Olympic gold for Ireland, would that mean Irish players are the best at table tennis? Of course it wouldn't, it would only show that the Chinese are the best regardless of where they live. I have some upcoming tournaments to prepare for so I'm going to stop wasting my time trying to change anyone's mind on here, you can all read Milwall's enlightened posts instead.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,180 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Yes, but you suggested he was home-grown, which he isn't.

    Anyway, can we leave the nationality/eligibility stuff aside now? Today's games are underway; Conor has white v 2470, and while law of averages mean he must have a bad game soon, a win today would surely be a huge step towards a norm.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,180 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    On the norm actually - I think the details linked by macelligott earlier are slightly out of date; there's a 2022 version at https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/FIDE%20Title%20Regulations%202022.pdf. I don't think it's changed much though.


    Conor now has three GM opponents after today's game - that's one box ticked. 5/6 of his opponents have been FM or higher - another box ticked (has to be 50%, and it definitely will be now)


    2425 average opponent (as macelligott says) means a score of 7/9 required - or 2/4 for the rest of the tournament. I think 7½/10 would do it too?


    Is that then just one norm of the three required? I thought the Olympiad was different in that a GM norm at the Olympiad gave you the title (provided you had the required rating too)? Or is that in olden days or even just made up?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,180 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Conor just a clear pawn up after 20 moves. Long way to go to convert, but a great position to be in at this stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭RooksPawn


    @cdeb There used to be a rule, I believe, that a norm at an olympiad counted as two norms but that seems to be abolished; I do not see it in the current regulations.

    The direct title regulations in the Handbook show only how FM/WFM and CM/WCM titles can be achieved in one olympiad performance and that's probably how the lower-rated title-holders from many countries got their awards.

    FIDE Handbook B. Permanent Commissions / 01. International Title Regulations (Qualification Commission) / Table for Direct Titles effective from 1 July 2017 /



  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess


    looks like Conor is going to be on 6/6...GM norm is sight and maybe just maybe a medal on board 2! (if he keeps winning)



  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭RooksPawn


    Conor has won to reach 6/6. The game feed froze about 15 minutes after Black's 30th so I wasn't sure if there was a technical breakdown or had Conor's opponent made an incorrect threefold repetition claim. (If Conor had repeated 31 Bd4 then a draw could be claimed.) Then the board updated to move 41 and relief all round.

    Elsewhere, Alex lost and the other two games look roughly equal but a 2-2 natch result isn't certain yet.

    The women's match looked like 0-4 after about two hours, but Trisha got a perpetual check after her opponent didn't find the critical attacking line while Alice has won another lost position. Lara is still fighting a pawn down but probably this match will end up 1.5-2.5.


    In the top matches of the Open olympiad India-1 have beaten India-3 by 3-1, the USA need Dominguez to win a favourable ending to get a drawn match with Armenia. Wesley So has won for USA but they have two lost positions. (Aronian of course did not play, Shankland is lost on board 4 and Caruana ought to lose to Sargissian.) I doubt many tears will be shed if the Armenians manage to hold on and win the match.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,180 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    This is incredible stuff from Conor. Sam's gold medal at the Olympiad is about the only real success we've had at it I think? But that was on board 6. To be on 6/6 on board 2 with a stronger team (a good chance of 4-1-2 after seven games compared to 3-1-3 for example, so higher opponents) is amazing. Up 30 points too, putting him to 2434 live. Does he now sit out tomorrow if he has black? Or if he can get his average opponent up a slight bit, it might be worth it to reduce his requirement from 1/3 to 1/4 - a free hit, effectively.

    The tactic that decided So's game was beautiful - giving up rook, queen and knight for mate. Can only dream of that sort of stuff at the Olympiad! Armenia were looking good for a win, but board 3 has sadly gone south for them.

    Tom has drawn now, so just Tarun playing in a level position, and Lara in a worse position, with both matches level at 1½-1½.



  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭RooksPawn


    Gukesh of India-2 won again to reach 7/7 but FM Nogyrbek, the board 4 for Kazakhstan, "only" drew with the GM from Spain so has lost his perfect record and is on 6.5/7.

    Conor's 6/6 on board 2 is pretty fantastic and one more win or two draws would bring him very close to the GM norm, depending on the rating of his remaining opponents.


    Since my last post, Tom O'Gorman has drawn so the Egypt match is 1.5-1.5 with Tarun still playing at move 46.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,180 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Looks like a dead draw in Tarun's game.

    Alice on 4½/6 is guaranteed a WCM title if she sits out one more game. Worst she could do is 4½/9, which is the required 50%. Just don't go to 4½/10! 6/9 would be a WFM title, so another 1½/3 required.

    Eibhia on 3½/4 I think also gets a WCM by finishing with 0/3 (7 games minimum for the WCM, 9 for the WFM)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭corkcitychess


    Brian Kelly gold 1994 or 1998?, Paul Delaney silver 1976 and John Delaney silver 1982 (and IM norm ) but yes...a very long time ago indeed



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