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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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    #8252
    crazy 88
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭crazy 88


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394506#Comment_119394506

    I am confusing it. It looked like mayor square in the pictures. Why didn't they just build docklands station that way to begin with?



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    #8253
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,950 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394888#Comment_119394888

    Because the existing station is a temporary structure (the platforms are even demountable so they can be reused elsewhere) as they were excepting DART Underground to have been built by now.



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    #8254
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Is the new station compatible with DART underground?



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    #8255
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,297 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395638#Comment_119395638

    No, at least not the way DART Underground was designed last time around. The new DART+ Tunnel project will have to find some work around



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    #8256
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Disjointed madness as usual.



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    #8257
    gjim
    Registered Users Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭gjim


    In the past, trains used to pass under those same bridges on Sherrif St when the North Wall Railway Station operated. They're might have to lower the trackbed a bit compared to the previous set-up to accommodate catenaries but that's not a biggie. I can't see any engineering complexity here in the proposal.

    Does anyone know if diesel trains will be able to terminate here also? Someone on another forum suggested it wouldn't be possible because the platforms are "underground" - but I think "below street level" would probably be more accurate statement. We have other covered stations where diesel trains terminate, so I'm not sure what to make of this claim.



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    #8258
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    If the station is in a trough then without mechanical ventilation you couldn't allow diesel services in there as carbon monoxide is heavier than air and the trough would just fill up with it. With a surface roofed over station the carbon monoxide just flows out the end and disperses.



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    #8259
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Looking at the curvature of the lines, I'm not sure why they're not putting a curve in so that trains traveling from Tara/Connolly can't curve and terminate in the new Docklands station also. It's mostly open land there where such a curve would go.



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    #8260
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,950 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396283#Comment_119396283

    Because it wouldn't really be very useful?

    There's also a significant elevation change.



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    #8261
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    You'd also be creating another at grade junction as northbound trains would need to cross the paths of southbound ones to access Docklands which would be a complete disaster.



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    #8262
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,297 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396187#Comment_119396187

    Yes there are stations that are covered with diesel services but they're not underground. Also those stations were built more than 100 years ago. Current regs wouldn't allow for a new station to be built this way.



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    #8263
    VeryOwl
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭VeryOwl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395800#Comment_119395800

    And no excuse for it either given that every project is moving in slow motion.

    If you're going to announce the world's slowest railway investment program, 5 years to electrify a single line, 3 years to lay down 10 km of double track through not very challenging terrain, 8-9 years to build a single light rail metro line, you could at least make sure the plans tie together and are future-proofed. What's the point in the hundreds of railway reviews and strategies if we still can't get this right??



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    #8264
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396313#Comment_119396313

    It would be an effective terminus for Wexford bound services.

    Post edited by AngryLips on


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    #8265
    Heraclius
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396276#Comment_119396276

    I think carbon monoxide is less dense than oxygen though? Carbon dioxide is denser.



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    #8266
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119401557#Comment_119401557

    The point of the endless reviews is to make it look like something is happening.

    Some people would call that corruption.



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    #8267
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Own goal of not building the station box for DU aside, the renders for the station at Spencer Dock are functional and nothing more.

    Opportunity here to build an occasion of a terminus for Dublin?



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    #8268
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Railway order docs

    https://www.dartplus.ie/en-ie/railwayorder/dartwest



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    #8269
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119402708#Comment_119402708

    Well that's not too bad I suppose. The Sheriff St entrance is a little pokey, but knowing IE we can be glad of an entrance there in the first place.



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    #8270
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119402155#Comment_119402155

    I stand corrected it is slightly less dense than air but apparently not light enough to rise up to a ceiling, so it just mingles with the air, which is actually what makes it so deadly I guess. I assumed it doesn't rise because you tend to see CO monitors wall mounted rather than ceiling mounted. In any case, the building of a trough like station seems to prohibit diesel services on safety grounds. The trough would behave like a utility room with a dodgy gas boiler and you'd still be dead or at the very least quite unwell.



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    #8271
    JohnnyChimpo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭JohnnyChimpo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119402904#Comment_119402904

    Per EN 50292:2013 regulations you can mount CO detectors on wall or ceiling, but they make the point that CO is usually emitted as part of warm air mixture so will rise until it cools. They recommend if you're going to wall mount that its above the level of any doors or windows, and not too jammed into the corner. I think most installers will put them on the ceiling now, I know my electrician did.


    The general point on station design seems accurate though



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    #8272
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    While I welcome the new entrance, I can't help but feel that they're splashing the cash where it's not needed given that there was a perfectly good entrance serving the same purpose already there and at significantly less expense (had they not let it be converted to offices recently).



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    #8273
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    In fairness the new entrance is a small expense compared to the rest of the works they plan to do under those arches. The whole area will be transformed from an unused basement to retail, bike storage, a large concourse and new escalators to the platforms above. Knocking a a hole in one of the bricked up arches to create the Preston St. entrance is really nothing I suppose. I have often thought there should be escalators up to P6/7. It's still relatively modest considering this is the biggest station in this project.

    I do wonder why the old suburban entrance isn't also being opened up to access the concourse. The cynic in me says the retail would have little footfall without directing passengers through the Preston St entrance.



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    #8274
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119402972#Comment_119402972

    The old entrance was not fit for purpose and to be honest was a magnet for some of the less desirable locals.

    There were several very violent attacks on station staff there and the protagonists could escape in any number of directions.

    The new exit will be further off-street and within the station proper and as such hopefully will be safer than the old one.



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    #8275
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The old entrance should never have been closed. Security should have been posted there rather than making passengers walk a half a mile detour via the main entrance. It was a typically lazy Irish Rail "solution" to the problem.



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    #8276
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Since the project is basically building a new entrance from scratch (even if they use the old entrance and completely refurbish it), we shouldn't be bound by the location of the old entrance. The difference in cost is minimal.

    I prefer the Preston Street location. It opens up Connolly to more people.



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    #8277
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119403769#Comment_119403769

    Trust me - if you worked in the immediate area as I do, you’d understand exactly why it was closed. We aren’t talking about minor issues - there were violent assaults on staff there.

    Seeing what happens in the area every day, frankly I don’t think private security would be any use there whatsoever.

    Preston Street offers a much better solution. It’s further in off Amiens Street and is part of the main station and not as isolated as the old entrance was, which is far too close to the main road.

    Post edited by LXFlyer on


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    #8278
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,768 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Had a quick look at the drawings earlier. First thought is that Spencer Dock station looks impressive but the skylights are north facing which seems to defeat the purpose. Also no mention of possible future extension for DU, from the Longitudinal Section you can already see that eLuas substation will be a big issue. Platform level is at -2.39 and then there would be c.180m to get down deep enough to pass under the liffey.

    Connolly also looks good but there seems to be a lot of unutilised space under the arches. Could they not flip the escalators to/from Platforms 6/7 so they start beside the entrance? The bike parking could be extended into the adjacent arches. They should be looking to utilise as much of the space under there as possible to bring lots of activity, maybe some co-working spaces and community uses, is there still boxing club on Seville Place?



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    #8279
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Preston Street is a dark cul de sac with little or no residential units. At night completely deserted apart from anyone using the station entrance. The IE staff might feel safe camped out inside the station behind bullet proof glass but it's not a more inviting place to locate the entrance for the traveling public. Unless there's a strong security presence right down to the junction with Amiens street, I predict many passengers will avoid using that entrance. It's not an argument against building the entrance at that location. It's an argument against giving up the space to scumbags. The same could and should have been done in response to the activities at the old entrance.

    Despite the attractive terms, nobody wanted to rent the arch where the door will be:

    2 Preston St

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/RTTQFWjyBdqyM4Uq6



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    #8280
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119405891#Comment_119405891

    With due respect, you don't see the area every day like I do. You are writing as if this is purely an Irish Rail problem.

    Unfortunately it is the most deprived part of Dublin city, and frankly it looks and feels like it working in the area.

    There are serious anti-social behaviour problems, that have got worse since Covid unfortunately. It is a far bigger societal problem for the whole surrounding area than simply for Irish Rail. It's depressing but true.

    Hence my firm view that nothing you suggest Irish Rail could do with regard to the old entrance would change anything at all. As I said it was too close to the street, and as such it was a magnet for the local criminal element.



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    #8281
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,018 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406669#Comment_119406669

    But the new entrance at the end of a cul de sac a couple of hundred yards down the road will be perfectly safe?? Do you not see any contradiction in your argument here?



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