organic farming

It might be but that dose not necessarily mean there is much chance for extra margin for the farmer.

The biggest issue with finishing cattle is to get a fat cover on them. It can be much harder to get cover on Continental cattle. Grass fed beef is where the profit is for the smaller farmer.

All the processor's show nice glossy pictures with cattle at grass. There will probably be a grass fed cattle scheme with 2-3 years

Organic payment is about 3.4 k after conversion. It's not going to make a Suckler farm any more profitable IMO. What ever you gain on the swings you will lose on the rounds.

While organics might get you another 5ish years at suckler's it's a one way road on profitability.

I think it all depends on your land. If you have marginal or hill land ya sucklers or sheep may be your only answer. As well you may have the land area to have a decent organic payment( 70HA by 170 euro) 11.9k and the ability to draw a maximum GLAS/ REAP payment.

However if you have fairly decent land and average acerage bany drystock to beef system will probably beat the pants off the 3-4 k organics payment.

A lad running a 20-25 unit calf to beef system on 50ish acres is capable of making a 1k/ unit margin at present.

All the figures from ICBF tell a completely different story. According to them the top feed converters are Continentals, not 1 traditional native breed animal in the top 250 breeding bulls. Which explains why a Huge amount of continentals are finished at 18-22 months.

Taste is subjective but the big super market chains like the Tescos and Dunnes are selling meat from mainly O grade cattle which are WH X FR or AA X FR or holsteins an FR cattle. It's not great tasting at times and can be very tough.

Compare that to the meat from the local Butchers who use 24-30 month heifer beef from continental stock

Rubbish. HO beef has win blind tasting competitions often. Marbled beef( AA and HE) is where the market is at present.

AA and HE dairy cross cattle are capable of being finished off grass at 18-20 months.

Yes some Continental breed cattle are more efficient converters than traditional breeds. However they need to be carried to higher weights to get fat cover. This can mean longer winter feeding periods.

You have other factor's as well. A dairy or dairyXbeef cross animal is a byproduct of the dairy system. They are starting to come in at minimal cost.

Efficiency is fairly immaterial in a grass based system. It's all about cost. A Friesian bull calf has a cost of on average 50 euro@ 20 days, a HE about 230-270 and an AA about 180-220 euro.

A continental calf has a cost associated with his mother. He is costing 500 at birth. To finish at 22-24 months he will eat over a ton of ration costing over 400 euro at present. Take these two costs out of a continental bullock and the economics are not in it

The reason most butchers will not kill Fr bullocks is the carcases are too heavy. Only in suckker area will butchers kill continental heifers, most will still kill AA and HE heifers in preference. If they kl a Continental heifer they want her around 250-280 kgs DW. That heifer has died in debt.

I have eaten beef out of most supermarkets. Any of the 28 day matured beef is grand. I think all LIDL and ALDI beef is that way now. Any of the AA or HE branded beef I have eaten has been perfect.

I have a problem with a local SuperValu. There beef is as tough as leather as is there pork. It mainly down to that I think they are not hanging there beef long enough. I think there pork is similar. While pork need not be hung for the length of time beef is it's needs to be hung for a week+

Marbled beef is where it is. AA and HE branded beef is selling at a premium to other beef. At marts at present AA finished cattle are selling at a price/ kg more than other cattle. As well they kill out less.

Yes it is there prime cuts that are longer matured. That is because these are cooked faster. As I pointed out rib eye is nearly similarly priced to fillet at present because of the marbling.

Attached is 32 day matured Tesco beef and 30 day Lidl beef. Look at the marbling on the Tesco fillet steak.

Butchers are being priced out of the AA and HE market. Farmers want to carry them to higher weight that the 220-280 kg DW they require. But they have a history of this. 5-7 years ago a butchers abbatoirs around large urban area were buying a lot of the under finished U16 month Friesian bulls.

When I say efficiency is immaterial I mean the efficiency of the animal. In a grass based system two thing matter the ability of the animal to gain weight and to achieve fat score off it. There is a reason why processor's have FSing and penalties for above and below it. Processor's have continually stated that the market preferable is for O+/R - grading cattle with a FS of 3. After that they ate as happy to go down in grading as up

Below are four pictures of bullocks. The first is an HE hair slightly wrong. Bought last year at 380 kgs for 700 euro. He gaining weight but not rapidly but is not gaining FS. However he will as you go out into August.

Next is an LM Suckler bullock gaining weight but will struggle with FS it will take plenty of grass and 4 kgs/ day over 10-12 weeks to get FS onto him.

The last two are Fr bullocks one is at 3- FS with no ration

In the next lphoto you will see four Friesian bullocks that wete bought last summer autumn. They are on ration ( a maize/ oatfeed mix) for the last three weeks. They are FS 3-/=. They are about 620-660kgs fresh weight.

All these cattle are on grass since early/mid March. They were all bought online. They all were grassed last Autumn and got silage only over the winter. The Friesians gain more weight and fatten faster that most other cattle.

So when I said most of what you said was rubbish regarding and dairy cross cattle I was correct. Like many suckker farmers you equate the ability of cattle to convert feed as important. You have a total missunderstanding of the beef market and what is profitable.

There is a link here to early finishing of AA and HE cross cattle at 18-22 months

Drool some more the other half picked 3-4 of these up reduced they still cost 12-15 euro. Absolutely beautiful.

My two cents, we've been selling direct to two butchers for the last 12 to 14 years. Neither wanted anything other than AA or white heads.

They are all off a dairy herd. Both say the carcasses of continental breeds are too big for them to handle easily in their abattoir and the cuts too big for the consumer demand here. E.g. more demand for smaller steaks than big big T bones from Continental breeds.

Anyway, we're probably off topic!

No waiting on it. Thought it'd be May. Prob ring them next week if I think of it.

Nothing as of yet ?

Problem is a lot of them have bells and whistles. While sheds are expensive at present it's gets crazy when you put in a lot of stuff that is not really necessary. All these cost money, things like locking barriers, gates between pens, drafting area's, doors in and out of sheds, thicker sheeting, vented sheeting.

Something's are worth getting but they all come at a cost.

Would many organic lads have rubber mats on slats to cut down on straw bedding altogether? I'm not sure of straw prices this year but it might make financial sense to just use straw for calfing and rubber mats for the rest of the housing season? Obviously assuming the animal has enough space from slats. Are they very expensive to install?