organic farming

Mooooo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087785#Comment_119087785

Not saying it doesn't but high prices will reduce the spending power of the shopper and the dearer stuff will be left on the shelf. Wpuld be the same craic with any increase in volume the factories will take any margin to be had

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087801#Comment_119087801

Food is still well below % spend in a family compared to a few decades ago. Folk who value food will still want to enjoy premium produce, which may indeed become more affordable via lower input systems. TBH there is really no value to be had for the vast majority of farmers in this country targeting the lowest rung of the market in terms of margins and intensive inputs. This issue is closely aligned with public heath issues like obesity etc. which is strongly associated with excessive consumption of low quality, poor nutritional, processed food. Some interesting studies on this recently comparing the nutritional content of food via extensive systems versus intensive

Mooooo

Average suckler herd is 15 cows I think, and majority of beef farmers are not in dero and prob farm rel extensively as it is. Talks of input savings and schemes is all well and good but until the market can return a sustainable price for it, it won't get the take up.

BorneTobyWilde

Do farmers want compostable material???

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087908#Comment_119087908

We have "market failure" across the board in most agri commodities atm. Alot of it was caused by market distorting production subs from the 70's onwards. Tis why the CAP needs ongoing radical overhaul. Its not unique to the EU either - similar issues in the US and in rice producing countries across Asia. This was one of the reasons why the US diverted nearly half its corn crop towards the biofuel scam in the past 20 years. Good article in the latest issue of The Economist on these matters

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119084464#Comment_119084464

You're safe enough Bass, I think we're both finished the course 😆.

Going organic is more about an attitude to the soil and farming with nature than against nature, not just the bottom line. I was surprised at the organic cows only producing 500 gallons/cow.

Dozer1

I think @blue5000 makes a good point in the reason for going to organics, from my perspective one thing that puts me off is the limited ability to buy and sell easily.

I like to be able to pick up stock on short notice, in organics I guess you have to plan around the special sales in the marts or donedeal which would put me off

Not to put anyone off the scheme itself but a common comment on my travels around various farms is "I'm organic without the paperwork", in that they ascribe willingly to the aspirations but would prefer not to have the inspections.

Siamsa Sessions

This discussion reminds me how great the farming community on boards.ie is. You’d get a great feel for the real pros and cons of organics on here that you’d never get reading official case studies, never mind the PR rubbish you see in the media

minerleague

would it be a fair comment that a beef farmer would want to be in sucklers for organic rather than a buying / selling trading system, ie have your own cattle?. Hard to know how long I'd stay at sucklers, TB test coming up ( supposed to be today but failed to get in bullocks, jumped electric fence, gate ! ) Maybe switch to AA bull on the cards 😲

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119087983#Comment_119087983

??

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119091854#Comment_119091854

Things like vegetables, fruits, used coffee grounds..

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119091866#Comment_119091866

You’d need an awful lot of that kind of compost to cover an acre of ground. Are you getting loads of it from a hotel or catering company? How rotted down would it be? Would it be tested for various nutrient levels? There’s compost and then there’s compost

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119091866#Comment_119091866

I will in the future yes, not quite set up for it yet, small problems like time & money 😄

endainoz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119091823#Comment_119091823

It'll only get easier as more people get into organic sucklers. There's nothing stopping a person selling organic cattle conventionally other than the fact that it sort of defeats the purpose of it.

I don't really buy the paperwork argument either, at least not in beef farming where there wouldn't be much paperwork really.

Fair enough for a horticultural system where everything planted and harvested has to be all recorded. The inspections aren't too bad either, I was quite nervous for my first one but they've all been fine.

The one thing that's always said, is that it's not for everyone, but for sure it's the answer for a lot of people who just don't realize it yet. Certain systems suit certain farmers. There were times when I got quite frustrated with it (still do) but I don't see myself leaving it any time soon.

JohnChadwick

Yea agree with Enda. At it 5 years, organic sucklers at 1 LU/ha, getting 20% more than conventional mart for weanlings. Paperwork is miniscule. Don't buy any straw and don't have liebacks.

Not sure how well organic suits buying/selling type farming but for Sucklers it seems the way to go.

Freejin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119092792#Comment_119092792

Is the 20% price differential still the case with conventional beef prices so high?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119092792#Comment_119092792

The shed space is what puts me off it. Would need to build another shed. Most suckler farmers would have a slatted unit with a lie back area just for calves.

The only way I could go organic is to calf all cows in say February and then wean in November. Currently calving in May so there would be a bit in changing breeding and also I find a lot more trouble in calving in February if the weather is poor with scours and short days etc

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119092792#Comment_119092792

How do you winter your cows, are they outside all winter?

Rusheseverywhere

Lucky that you are being allowed that I rember you said you use cubilcles which are allowed for old sheds but not new I think in Organic can see them getting banned. In Sucklers myself and price the same as conventional for U grade Contintental certainly last good while, but AA definitely do better in Organic. The other killer is cattle need to be out for 270 days a year. 120 cattle out in late October or early April do a number on land. Lucky too with the straw as I have had on Inspection checks to see amount purchased to ensure adequate.

Rusheseverywhere

Just to add contintental may not suit organic as need meal and meal at 720 a tonne an animal will eat a tonne over its lifetime assume being killed at 30 months or so. Depends on weights you want to get. The fact bulls not allowed in Organic is also BS they have to be squezzed at 5 months but that never seems to be the case in the marts. Heard that going to get hit on the head.

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119091823#Comment_119091823

That's a good question. I know of one organic (part time) farmer who gets the contracts for finished cattle first, then goes and buys the cattle to suit, this can be very good for sellers IYKWIM. It probably suits sucklers better, you have more choices, you can take them to the mart and sell to conventional farmers, you can grow some grain and finish them yourself or sell them as forward stores to organic finishers either privately or at a special sale. If you have the shed space you could finish off grass at 30-36 months.

At the moment I'm selling mine conventionally to non organic farmers while I'm in conversion, but that will probably change as I get the hang of it. The other advantage of having sucklers is the herd can be closed, so there's less disease risk. There's talks of grading coming in for organic cattle so AA may not be the best bull in future. Does anyone really know what consumers will want in 2025? It is for now though as you have no de-horning. The whole de-horning castration debate in organics is a fooking minefield.

Rusheseverywhere

grading is in a while in Organics when I started used to be flat price U to O. Queried this with factory as U grade cattle told O is good enough for organic. Now any O grade is -18 from base and if it is and O and a 5 it is minus 40 c. So O plus 5 heifer is 5.20 get much the same in ordinary factory. 18c bonus flat across all U grade including U plus but no bonus on R plus where I lost out on batch of heifers recentlyie 0.06c of bonus. Also as for me takes 24 hours between cattle collected and killed sure that the slip a grade. Wexford and Tipp where killed at moment for the country.

Stationmaster

I have 15/16 suckler cows but winter outside. I'd been thinking of looking into going organic to see if it would suit but one of the first things that's jumping out at me is a lot of talk about adequate shed space - am I automatically ruled out if I winter out!? Thanks.

Limestone Cowboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094447#Comment_119094447

No you can ouwinter. Herself is in organics and everything is out all year round. Would depend on you're stocking rate though I would imagine.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094447#Comment_119094447

Sher it’s ideal for you! No straw costs or shed worries. Less sickness etc.

Stationmaster

There’s no requirement to have a shed so? Just certain regulations if you do have one?

Stationmaster

Thanks. 15 cows and a bull for the winter and 60 acres so think sticking rate is ok.

Cran

Anyone on here running sheep enterprise organically

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095138#Comment_119095138

There is a good video on you tube of an organic beef farmer in Leinster with pedigree Angus cows. They outwinter in trees. Looks like a really good set up.